 | | Re: My Stance —Scott Arthur
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| | | (...) I think webpage updates need be few and far between. I do not know if Todd is able to limit the number of posts MM can make to (say) once a month/week? Scott A (24 years ago, 19-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | (canceled) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) I'm tending to side with Mike here. I remember the RTL instruction scans incident all too well. Matt has glossed over that, but my recollection (Ka On Lee posted a deja reference to it) was that anyone that said ANYTHING that suggested that (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | "Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:G2ps0v.7xy@lugnet.com... (...) Todd is (...) month/week? (...) ALL (...) nice (...) this (...) devil's (...) to (...) is (...) glossed (...) was (...) about (...) them by (...) Well (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | (...) Scott, do you think this is an appropriate example? I never care much some f words in a post, since I'm using bad language in my everyday life, (but still trying to not use them in my post here since TOS banned them) but is this the key (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | (...) Even more pertinent, glancing over the three posts in question for the "f word" (well, two, since one is cancelled) will show that they are about whether or not the word is offensive... in other words, they were talking about whether or not (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) word" (...) or (...) It's (...) Sorry I did not read them, and still have not. I'll accept your word for it. Scott A (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | (...) This issue aside, I don't think it is acceptable to use "bad words" here, and I doubt most people here do either. I don't swear in front of my kids, or anyone else’s. Kids do read Lugnet. Sure Matt did a bad thing. But others fanned his (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Scott Arthur
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| | | | (...) I'll give people the benifit of the doubt every day of the week, 24 hours a day. I may be a mug. I'm not the only one who thinks MM is just a poor sap who *perhaps* should get another chance in some sort of limited way. I have read your other (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | (canceled) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | LUGNET has many things, and it needs many things. However, I don't feel it needs "loathing animosity" of any kind. I may be wrong? Scott A (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | (canceled) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Paul Baulch
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| | | | | | | Mike, could you please keep this hateful rubbish off LUGNET?!? Thank you. Mike Stanley wrote in message ... (...) (including (...) community (...) removed (...) LUGNET (...) person (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | (canceled) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | (...) So, what you're really saying isn't that you're worried that he'll disrupt the community, but that you don't like his beliefs, so you don't want him here? I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. I just can't. And I dare you to defend that position (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | Eric, I think a not so slight difference between not liking someone, and ridiculing him/her with ugly ways just because you don't like his/her software. I don't like Ldraw much, I use LeoCAD from the very beginning, and think it is superior to Ldraw (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | (...) I'm not saying you shouldn't be offended. I'm just saying that your offense at his beliefs, or thoughts, or graphics on his webpage, or even what he says here, doesn't constitute a good enough reason to ToSs him, IMHO. To think otherwise is to (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Of course not. I posted several posts here about the subject, about how much a good thing that he banned, and about how unnecessary to allow him to post again even in admin, but I never mentioned his sick hatred as an only reason or not a (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —James Simpson
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| | | | | | | | (...) I fully supported the ban on his posting privileges. His repeated diatribes that "James is dead. Deal with it", or whatever was reason enough - not because he in fact holds that uncompassionate and cruel sentiment, but because his repeated (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | (...) Your right. And for that reason, I would support banning him, as well. I would not support banning him *simply* because he maintains that graphic on his website, however. Nor would I support banning him simply because it's what he believes. If (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —John Robert-Blaze Kanehl
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| | | | | | | | (...) Would you give cancer or a terrorist a second chance? Don't fall for plastic sentiment, faux remorse, and hollow words... John (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | (...) First of all, I'm not 100% sure the term "second chance" applies. After all, he is a new member. We're not talking about "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" here. I'm also not suggesting that *every* time he acts up Lugnet (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | | | | | | Well I promised I wouldn't get to involved in this discussion and I won't in a detailed way. I just wanted to say that I have agreed with just about everything Eric J. has had to say in this discussion. Certain things have been brought into this (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | (...) I'm sure the phrase "new member" must means different things to different people -- perhaps two weeks to one person, two months to another, or even two years to another. In any case, for the record, Matthew's first post here was on April 9, (...) (24 years ago, 22-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Agreed. I went and looked using the search function. I may have missed some but I found a number of posts from Matthew going quite a ways back. Some were hyperbolic, but none (that I found, but I may have missed some) were vitriolic. Nothing (...) (24 years ago, 22-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) <snip? (...) OK quick question(1). Now I don't think many/any of us know much of Matthew other than he has some personal issues to work out and that he likes to cause havoc. So here's the question. Assume that Matthew is say 14 and he is (...) (24 years ago, 22-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) It's very difficult -- and I'm not even going to try -- to sum everything up in a nice simple pat statement (not that you're asking for one), since, to various extents, I agree with almost everything that everyone here has said. My opinions (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general) !
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Me too. (...) Not sure why he needs to be very careful, since the decision years from now whether or not to banish someone else will still be Todd's decision to make, not mine or yours or anyone else's (unless Todd decides to make it someone (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I think Eric meant it as wise advice. --Todd (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | (...) D'oh. I don't know where I got the impression that he was fairly new (to posting, at least, because there's no way to tell how long someone's been lurking). That does color things slightly- after all, it means he's been here long enough to (...) (24 years ago, 22-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) I agree. However... I think that there were people who felt that way initially, but that many, if not all, have come around to reject that view. And that's a good thing. For the few remaining, can you identify yourselves and post reasons why (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I just wanted to add that I agree with Eric J. once again. I know I and a few others were playing a bit of devils advocate durring this discussion. Thats mostly because I thought several peoples reasoning for banishment were misguided. There (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) And/or perhaps in some cases overstated. Or overly stressed. (...) I sent Todd a few private e-mails on this subject (most of which dealt pretty specifically with apologizing for blowing my top and asking him to remove my emotionally charged (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Stanley writes: <snip> (...) That statement I would not take as being a threat but like I said I don't know what people said to Todd privately and I assume there were many people writing Todd privately about the topic (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I think you may have misunderstood why I mentioned your member number (note I didn't mention mine). I also don't think your number should necessarily indicate you have some sort of status or "power" here. I referenced it simply because I (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Kyle D. Jackson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) G'day Eric, I find it interesting that you call this elitist. In a way I guess I can see your point, but I personally don't see it as a bad thing. When I first got on LUGNET (start of this year) I thought that all people posting to LUGNET had (...) (24 years ago, 24-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) #15?.. Heh!..:-) Selçuk, #4 (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) One person said that, but I'm not sure how serious they were. A couple of other people hinted at it. Two or three people (I think two) said that they would set up a killfile. (...) I don't think they meant it as a threat. I certainly didn't (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Actually I'm not including myself to that a few remaining, but in case of any doubt, here is my reasoning, in which I tried to word it as much clear as possible: (URL) there is any flaws, replies would be really appreciated. Selçuk (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | (...) Wow, what a loaded question, especially given what seems(ed) like a reverse- witch-hunt. I'd like to state first that I realized Friday that I got WAY too worked up about this and posted some things that were, in some cases, petty and (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | | (...) So would I. No one ever said you couldn't choose who to like and who not to like. (...) Actually, if I felt that way, yeah, I would be ashamed of myself. (...) Just because he may have been here on Lugnet doesn't mean you *must* associate with (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) People seem to be suggesting, though, that one should not choose to voice that opinion. If person A can voice an opinion that persons B, C, and D find offensive (and to be honest - persons E, F, and G couldn't care less about) I'd say B, C, or (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) So would I. Of course, discussing it would imply the person with the negative opinion was around to discuss it. :D I'm really not saying that you should be forced to agree in any way with anything anyone says, or that you should not have the (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Which is a succinct way of saying that he was basically a jerk. :) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | (...) strongly (...) to (...) Well it wasn't *intended* as a witch hunt. More of a rhetorical question, because i'm not sure there *are* any people who still feel that someone should be tossed soley for opinions. <snip Mike's eloquent distinction (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | (...) As did I...I think a day or two earlier. I didn't remove all my posts but two or three that were particularly sour. It's interesting how quickly we (humans) can blow up, even when we don't want to. That's probably what I dislike most about (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | (canceled) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | (...) No, I don't know that. Not based on what you said. If that's not how you feel, I suggest you stop obsessing over his disrespect for James, because that's certainly how it's sounding. (...) Fine, that was the final straw. But if he's learned (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | (canceled) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | (...) And now he might be let back in. So my question stands. (...) How can you be so sure that he's being dishonest? What do you stand to lose if he's given a chance to really show what he wants to do on Lugnet? (...) Where? (...) How can you be (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | (canceled) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | (...) I think that I misunderstood how you felt, and I reacted to that. (...) I'm sorry. <:( Although, I'm at work... which of us do you think has it better? :D eric (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Tim Courtney
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| | | | "Mike Stanley" <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote in message news:G2qJ13.95M@lugnet.com... (...) a (...) sap who (...) overly-nice (...) person (...) many (...) he (...) can (...) that he (...) "apology" - (...) therefore (...) I'm a bit unsure on the (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | (...) Why should he not express how he feels? If he leaves it there, and you don't like it, no one is forcing you to go to his site and look at it, or to say that it's right. Why should taking that off his site be a contingency of his being accepted (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | "Lorbaat" <eric@nospam.thirteen.net> wrote in message news:G2qso5.AAH@lugnet.com... (...) Why should he express that in a manner that attacks the community he claims to want to be a part of? (...) to (...) And no one is forcing me to accept his (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | (...) I think you're confusing the Lugnet community with the LDraw community. Don't. (...) I would think removing it, when he's made it clear he still doesn't feel it was wrong, would be insincere. (...) Do you actually know the definition of the (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | Lorbaat wrote: <snip> (...) I think you are stretching a bit Eric. Forget about the JJ icon and look at his "document" about "My views about the self entitled "Lego Community"." (URL) (note the name of the html!!) You respected a community and want (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | (...) Sorry, but I don't. (...) He's simply stating some things he doesn't like about the Lego community as he sees it. What's the problem with that? Once again, what it comes down to is this: Over on *his* site, which you are under no obligation to (...) (24 years ago, 21-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | (...) I think we are not talking about "excluding him from Lugnet", he is already excluded in some way, and not for his web content. What we are talking about is whether his apologies are sincere or not. And his web content makes me believing the (...) (24 years ago, 21-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | (...) No, I'm pretty sure we are, since there are people that are still telling Todd they want to see him banned permanently. I don't think that's right, and apparently (based on other people's posts here) I'm not alone in thinking that. Based on (...) (24 years ago, 21-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | (...) Sorry Tim but I think you are wrong here. Do I think the graphic on Matthew's site is distasteful? Yes. Do I care about the other text there? Not really. We cannot make the content of someone's personal site a prerequisite for inclusion in the (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | "Eric Kingsley" <kingsley@nelug.org> wrote in message news:G2qtCJ.CHJ@lugnet.com... (...) Matthew's (...) really. (...) like (...) I should correct myself - not *should* in the sense of a clearcut condition, but as a willful action to demonstrate to (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | | | (...) <snip? (...) First I should appoligize because "Clouds" was not the right word. What I was trying to say is that I think you feel a closer connection with James and his legacy than many of us do. That makes what Matthew did more personal to (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | Eric Kingsley wrote: <snip> (...) I will be agreeing you on this for a different case but not this. We are not trying to rationalize to TOS him because of his web content. It's just his web content is another evidence for making his (in my mind) (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | Selçuk Göre skrev i meddelandet <39F0D9E8.9A73C9F@su...ne.com>... (...) what (...) I don't think 'suspicions' are enough to judge anyone. 'Evidence' is what's used for that. The evidence in this case are the messages posted on lugnet, nothing else. (...) (24 years ago, 21-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | (...) Friends, I know I'm not very fluent in this language which is native to me, so I rewording it again: He started a flame war. He did that knowingly, and he even chose the person to flame by rather randomly, since he did that just for the sake (...) (24 years ago, 21-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Matthew Moulton
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| | | | | | (...) So the ENTIRE flame war was all me, huh? No one else participated at all? No one else helped add fuel to the fodder? That's kinda funny cause that's not exactly how I remember it. (...) Hey look, a conspiracy theory. Oh hey, here's a thought, (...) (24 years ago, 22-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | (...) Not accurate, no. Beside the point, nobody who wrote me was upset by your views -- only by your attitude and immature behavior level .space and .off-topic.debate. --Todd (24 years ago, 22-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | | | (...) I don't mean even a bit by the above paragraph it was all you, and the flame war is not a big thing to me as alone. The paragraph is just a chronology, so I put it back to it's original form. (...) Read below. Besides, bet I care even a bit (...) (24 years ago, 22-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —James Brown
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| | | | (...) In general, I agree with you. However, Matthew used his website (in my opinion) as a tool to damage and disrupt the community. He crafted lies and misdirections, then posted something designed to stand out and direct traffic at his site. I (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | In lugnet.admin.general, James Brown writes: <snip> (...) Agreed. (...) Agreed. (...) Definitely Agree. (...) If it was posted here I would agree but I don't think it was. It may have been posted on his site or sent to Todd and then he admitted to (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | (...) For what it's worth (not much) I'd wager I got you both beat on that issue. ;) (...) I've requested that all of my posts (well, not counting this one, I guess) on this topic be removed. I didn't add anything productive to this discussion, and (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —James Brown
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| | | | | (...) I can't recall where exactly he said it (in a couple places, I think), but Matthew admitted in a post on Lugnet that he faked the content on his website and made the inflamatory remarks that he did specifically to damage the Lego community. (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: My Stance —Eric Kingsley
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| | | | | | (...) Well that definitely wasn't nice if thats how it happened. *But* how much damage do you think he could have done to us from his site? From a technical standpoint his site is nice but not something that is going to generate a ton of hits on its (...) (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | Re: My Stance —Ka-On Lee
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| | | | (...) been (...) It was actually only one year ago. He remembered it wrong. (24 years ago, 20-Oct-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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