| |
For those of you who don't know me, I've been in the AFOL community for a long
time. I'm also one of the largest hosters of LEGO clubs and other LEGO-related
sites. Most of these sites are donated to help the clubs have an internet
presence, Some of the sites have been nice enough to put a link back to my site,
but this is not always the case. I've been doing this for years as a service to
the community, with a small hope of picking up some paid business from this
donation. While a few people have done so, the vast majority of these donated
sites have never generated a single lead for paid business. I've also advertised
at BrickFest, in BrickJournal, and a number of other places, none of which have
generated any business for me, either. I say this not to complain, but to show a
pattern in this community that Brickshelf probably ran into.
I'm not sure why brickshelf was never switched to a subscription-based service,
but that's really up to Kevin. However, giving away bandwidth, storage, and
hosting with no guaranteed source of revenue is not something I personally want
to get into. If you're Google, you're making money on giving away free e-mail by
indexing e-mail and showing well-targeted ads to your visitors. The various
photo (flickr, etc) sites allow a limited amount of usage before they start
charging, but they can do a fairly good conversion (free -> paid) because people
get hooked on the service and don't want to leave.
There are some fairly large expenses involved in running a large site like
brickshelf, and the numbers I'm quoting are based on my own experiences as a web
host. The bandwidth that brickshelf.com is using is massive. The site has done a
number of things, such as doing good thumbnails, etc. to cut down the data
transfer, but even then, here are some numbers for you to ponder:
- The going rate for bandwidth in commercial data centers varies, but I've
gotten quotes for single 45 Mbps lines for around $2200/month.
- Data center space is based on the amount of equipment you have, measured in
"U" units. A typical server is anywhere from 1U - 4U in size. If you do a search
for colocation rates, you'll find rates anywhere from $50-$100/U and up.
- If you have enough servers to fill an entire cabinet, you're looking at
anywhere from $750+ for cabinet rental in a typical data center.
- You also have maintenance contracts on hardware, security subscriptions for
firewalls, and so on.
For those of you saying that the site had ads (and I do remember the uproar when
they appeared), ads only work if people click on them. Given the fact that the
bulk of the content was pictures, it would be hard to get well-targeted ads on
the pages. Poorly targeted ads = poor clickthrough rates = less money.
Kevin has been providing this site for free for years, for no thanks or much
money. I'm hoping he was at least breaking even, but I am not privy to those
details. As far as I know, Kevin was never made into a Lego Ambassador, even
though his site helped promote the community. Most people probably don't even
know who he is... he's just another AFOL who came up with a great site to help
people share their creations. Kevin deserves our thanks for providing a place to
look at people's creations. If he's decided to take it down, then we need to say
thanks, and move on. A warning might have been nice, but you have no idea what
the circumstances were that caused the shutdown. Let's give him the benefit of
the doubt, but remember some of the things I've mentioned.
As to you ungrateful people who have the nerve to complain about the site not
being available, and especially to the people who insulted the site, how much
did you pay for the service? Did you ever even send a thank-you for
brickshelf.com? Did you ever donate a penny to help the site stay up? Did you
ever think about how much it was costing to put it up? Did you even click on an
ad once in a while? My guess is that your answers to all these questions are a
resounding NO.
That sort of attitude makes me absolutely sick. It really disturbs me that I'm
donating space to help promote clubs that contain people like you. Your posts
are an insult to the community that you claim to belong to. If I were him and
was reading some of the posts that were up, the pictures you may have posted
would be deleted as fast as I could make them go away. Someone is paying for
every single "free" service and software package you use. If you're not doing
something (paying, etc.) to contribute, you're a parasite.
That's my 2 (or 20) cents on the matter... thanks for listening.
Eric Smith
President, Northstar Computer Systems
www.northcomp.com
|
|
| |
As someone who operates a blog (brickpile.com) about LEGO I agree that there is
very little revenue from ads. The problem with ads in a LEGO-related site is
that there are only so many times people can click on links to legoshop.com and
there just aren't many other advertisers in the rotation.
Brick Journal has the same problem. They get ads from Tommy's brick engraving,
a few AFOL's who do custom kits, but really there aren't any big-ticket
advertisers interested in AFOL's.
I've given this a lot of thought and haven't come up with any good answers. The
best I could think of would be somebody like Plano or other maker/sellers of
storage products that AFOL's might want to use.
As for going to a subscription model, Kevin did try that a little bit, by giving
the option to donate in order to avoid the ads. But there was never much effort
made to making that work well (such as one-click PayPal Subscriptions) and the
ads are easy enough to ignore that most people probably didn't bother. If there
were bandwidth limits placed on non-paying users, or something like that, then
people might have been more motivated to pay.
Also, regarding bandwidth, that was sheer laziness on Kevin's part. Yes, he had
a good thumbnail system in place, but what he failed to do was shrink the full
size images. With most people having multi-megapixel cameras these days,
unshrunk JPEG images are BIG. Brickshelf shrunk the images by using HTML
width/height attributes, which made it fit on the browser window, but did
nothing to help with bandwidth. If bandwidth was an issue he would have
displayed the images in 640x480 or 800x600. This could be done by leveraging
the existing thumbnail generating code.
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Eric Smith wrote:
>
> For those of you saying that the site had ads (and I do remember the uproar when
> they appeared), ads only work if people click on them. Given the fact that the
> bulk of the content was pictures, it would be hard to get well-targeted ads on
> the pages. Poorly targeted ads = poor clickthrough rates = less money.
Thanks for the information, Eric. It's hard for most people (including myself)
to get a grasp on just what resources are needed to run such a site.
With respect to targeted ads, Kevin was using Google Adsense, and I believe
(from seeing different ads for different folders) he was feeding the folder
keywords and maybe the description text to Google to get better targeted ads.
Advertising services like Adsense can generate pretty well targeted ads, and
although the revenue is less than getting advertisers directly, it is much less
work. BRE, with only 50-60MB/day bandwidth, and pretty unobtrusive ads, is
easily able to cover the $10/mth hosting fee without even doing any of the
things Google recommend to get better results. I'm sure a site with traffic like
Brickshelf could generate significant income from such a service with a little
work.
And as you say, there is always the option of subscriptions to generate more
income.
ROSCO
|
|
| |
> Advertising services like Adsense can generate pretty well targeted ads, and
> although the revenue is less than getting advertisers directly, it is much less
> work. BRE, with only 50-60MB/day bandwidth, and pretty unobtrusive ads, is
> easily able to cover the $10/mth hosting fee without even doing any of the
> things Google recommend to get better results. I'm sure a site with traffic like
> Brickshelf could generate significant income from such a service with a little
> work.
Hmm. If Brickshelf was attracting plenty of money through advertising, why would
its owner close it down? Unless we think Kevin is joining a monastery and
devoting himself to a life of poverty, that's not rational behaviour. If
Bricklink was really bringing in megabucks in advertising, Kevin could afford to
hire someone else to maintain the site if he was too busy.
So, my guess is that the Brickshelf was not making money or at least not making
enough to be worth Kevin's time maintaining it.
Kerry
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Kerry Raymond wrote:
> > Advertising services like Adsense can generate pretty well targeted ads, and
> > although the revenue is less than getting advertisers directly, it is much less
> > work. BRE, with only 50-60MB/day bandwidth, and pretty unobtrusive ads, is
> > easily able to cover the $10/mth hosting fee without even doing any of the
> > things Google recommend to get better results. I'm sure a site with traffic like
> > Brickshelf could generate significant income from such a service with a little
> > work.
>
> Hmm. If Brickshelf was attracting plenty of money through advertising, why would
> its owner close it down? Unless we think Kevin is joining a monastery and
> devoting himself to a life of poverty, that's not rational behaviour. If
> Bricklink was really bringing in megabucks in advertising, Kevin could afford to
> hire someone else to maintain the site if he was too busy.
>
> So, my guess is that the Brickshelf was not making money or at least not making
> enough to be worth Kevin's time maintaining it.
>
> Kerry
Or he's focusing his efforts on maj.com, which as far as I can tell is based on
Brickshelf's code.
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Kerry Raymond wrote:
> > Advertising services like Adsense can generate pretty well targeted ads, and
> > although the revenue is less than getting advertisers directly, it is much less
> > work. BRE, with only 50-60MB/day bandwidth, and pretty unobtrusive ads, is
> > easily able to cover the $10/mth hosting fee without even doing any of the
> > things Google recommend to get better results. I'm sure a site with traffic like
> > Brickshelf could generate significant income from such a service with a little
> > work.
>
> Hmm. If Brickshelf was attracting plenty of money through advertising, why would
> its owner close it down? Unless we think Kevin is joining a monastery and
> devoting himself to a life of poverty, that's not rational behaviour. If
> Bricklink was really bringing in megabucks in advertising, Kevin could afford to
> hire someone else to maintain the site if he was too busy.
>
> So, my guess is that the Brickshelf was not making money or at least not making
> enough to be worth Kevin's time maintaining it.
>
> Kerry
As I mentioned earlier, he himself said that he was making a small profit off
Brickshelf. I would try finding his post but Zerostuds was only up for around
two weeks and wasn't picked up by the Wayback Machine crawlers at all.
I can imagine him taking it down due to time constraints though. I believe he
was moderating every uploaded folder by himself, which would be an enormous
drain on his time. I don't know how he managed to do it for so long.
-Gaurav
(remove the capital S's in the email)
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Ross Crawford wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Eric Smith wrote:
> >
> > For those of you saying that the site had ads (and I do remember the uproar when
> > they appeared), ads only work if people click on them. Given the fact that the
> > bulk of the content was pictures, it would be hard to get well-targeted ads on
> > the pages. Poorly targeted ads = poor clickthrough rates = less money.
>
> Thanks for the information, Eric. It's hard for most people (including myself)
> to get a grasp on just what resources are needed to run such a site.
>
> With respect to targeted ads, Kevin was using Google Adsense, and I believe
> (from seeing different ads for different folders) he was feeding the folder
> keywords and maybe the description text to Google to get better targeted ads.
Feeding keywords, in the AdSense context is incredibly ineffective. This isn't a
jab at Kevin, simply a bit of reality about how AdSense works. One of the
reasons AdSense favors well trafficked blogs, forums, and news sites is that
they post a metric ton of independent textual content entries and thus pump
hundreds or thousands of words into a single entry. Compare that against a
brickshelf image page with maybe 2-10 keywords. The lack of context would kill
Brickshelf AdSense success.
AdSense can, however, but used effectively. The dating site PlentyOfFish.com (a
Canadian site run and coded by one guy) is doing quite nicely with it, netting
$900,000 in 2 months, according to the owner's blog post:
http://tinyurl.com/ew6fr
Jake
---
Jake McKee
Private Citizen
"Keeping hope alive"
|
|
| |
I would like to thank Kevin.
Brickshelf has meant alot to me since the nineties as a resource for ideas.
I look at brickshelf on a daily basis for inspiration.
I'm just not that creative and learned alot about techniques.
Lugnet and brickshelf are so closely tied together I always considered them
inseperable.
most posts have links refering to brickshelf.
many of the posts are unreadable now.
I looked at some of the alternatives and one was good but it doesn't have the
volume of information that was previously available.
I don't know how to fix the problem (get all that data back online) but I would
pay for a subscription to a site.
for my AFOL experience I am totally dependant on LUGNET and Brickshelf to stay
in touch and to be inspired.
Patty Van Dyke
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Jordan Bradford wrote:
| |
Or he’s focusing his efforts on maj.com, which as far as I can tell is based
on Brickshelf’s code.
|
I just hate speculating in the dark about all of this, but that’s my sense. For
now, I’m simply going to reupload all of my pics to my maj.com account (which is
the same username and password for all former Brickshelf accounts). I just hope
Kev makes a “LEGO” section on maj.com so that we can once again surf through
folders of just LEGO creations. Not having one place to surf LEGO MOCs is what
I miss the most:-(
JOHN
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, John Neal wrote:
| |
For now, I’m simply going to reupload all of my pics to my maj.com account
(which is the same username and password for all former Brickshelf accounts).
I just hope Kev makes a “LEGO” section on maj.com so that we can once again
surf through folders of just LEGO creations. Not having one place to surf
LEGO MOCs is what I miss the most:-(
JOHN
|
I completely agree with John’s last point - I’d hit the ‘recent updates’ link on
Brickshelf a couple times a day.
My own biggest problem is that the images I had on Brickshelf are going to be
difficult to replace - the computer they were originally uploaded from has gone
haywire on me.
JohnG, GMLTC
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, John Gerlach wrote:
| |
I completely agree with John’s last point - I’d hit the ‘recent updates’ link
on Brickshelf a couple times a day.
|
And it appears that the mass migration is on! If you go to maj.com, its recent
pages are filled with LEGO MOCs...
| |
My own biggest problem is that the images I had on Brickshelf are going to be
difficult to replace - the computer they were originally uploaded from has
gone haywire on me.
|
Doood. Your problem, J-1, is that you are old-school AND net-wiz-bang:-)
J-2
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, John Gerlach wrote:
| |
I completely agree with John’s last point - I’d hit the ‘recent updates’
link on Brickshelf a couple times a day.
|
And it appears that the mass migration is on! If you go to maj.com, its
recent pages are filled with LEGO MOCs...
|
Am I the only one that’s a bit nervous about about a mass migration to maj.com?
If a mass migration happens, the maj.com bandwidth shoots through the roof and
Kevin is once again facing overwhelming bandwidth costs. If this happens, does
he shut down that site too, thus leaving everyone in the same spot they’re in
now? Generally, we don’t know if the issue is that Kevin is done hosting
anything or only done hosting brickshelf.com.
Without any communication from Kevin on this matter, I’d be hesitant to rush to
migrate to maj.com. But perhaps that’s just me.
Jake
---
Jake McKee
Private Citizen
“Keeping hope alive”
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, John Gerlach wrote:
| |
I completely agree with John’s last point - I’d hit the ‘recent updates’
link on Brickshelf a couple times a day.
|
And it appears that the mass migration is on! If you go to maj.com, its
recent pages are filled with LEGO MOCs...
|
Am I the only one that’s a bit nervous about about a mass migration to
maj.com?
|
No, you’re not alone.
| |
Without any communication from Kevin on this matter, I’d be hesitant to rush
to migrate to maj.com. But perhaps that’s just me.
|
Same here. We’re all speculating, and in the dark. Without any word from Kevin,
everything is just second-guessing. I would not be comfortable using Maj.com for
anything until reading something from Kevin about Brickshelf’s demise. I
simply can’t trust that the same thing that happened to BS won’t happen to Maj.
Kelly
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, John Gerlach wrote:
| |
I completely agree with John’s last point - I’d hit the ‘recent updates’
link on Brickshelf a couple times a day.
|
And it appears that the mass migration is on! If you go to maj.com, its
recent pages are filled with LEGO MOCs...
|
Am I the only one that’s a bit nervous about about a mass migration to
maj.com? If a mass migration happens, the maj.com bandwidth shoots through
the roof and Kevin is once again facing overwhelming bandwidth costs. If this
happens, does he shut down that site too, thus leaving everyone in the same
spot they’re in now? Generally, we don’t know if the issue is that Kevin is
done hosting anything or only done hosting brickshelf.com.
Without any communication from Kevin on this matter, I’d be hesitant to rush
to migrate to maj.com. But perhaps that’s just me.
Jake
---
Jake McKee
Private Citizen
“Keeping hope alive”
|
I also agree until we find out something from Kevin, moving files, correcting
links, and stressing over lost pictures is all worthless, we all just need to
take a breath and wait to hear something.
It is obvious that Brickshelf has evolved into more then a free web site for a
small corner of the internet. It has morphed into an endless free sharing of
designs techniques and models of any thing LEGO.
For what ever the reason for the current outage I feel the LEGO community has
more than enough history and work involved in Brickshelf that we need to make
sure we have this site for the future, in any form.
I enjoy going to one site and seeing nothing but LEGO, I fear that with out
Brickshelf in the future many of the works of others will be lost in the
internet fog. I love the recent folders as I know I can see everything that gets
uploaded. Searching is hard but that’s because most people do not name the
pictures or add a search string to the folder.
Hopping for the return of the one and only Brickshelf!
Mike Gallagher
MIKESLEGO GALLAGHERSART
FYI,
Mentioned years ago and a backup solution was made, new version works on MAJ.com
(what does MAJ stand for ?)
Lugnet article
http://news.lugnet.com/general/?n=50928
Current link
http://www.fial.com/bob/partscatalog/download/BSBackup_0013.zip
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote:
| |
Without any communication from Kevin on this matter, I’d be hesitant to rush
to migrate to maj.com. But perhaps that’s just me.
|
No, it’s not just you, Jake. I do it with fear and trepidation. But want to be
loyal to Kevin and what he has done for the AFOL community, if that indeed is
what a migration means. If we are a nuisance, then I would by all means go to a
Flickr-type solution.
And as it happens, I already have a Flickr account, because I already had a
Yahoo! account. So I’ll go poke around there for a while...:-)
JOHN
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Mike Gallagher wrote:
| |
what does MAJ stand for ?
|
It took me a few weeks from first hearing the name to figure it out, but it’s a
trademarkable spelling of the second syllable of the word “image”. Not
pronounced quite the same, but clearly the source of the word.
|
|
| |
In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, John Gerlach wrote:
| |
I completely agree with John’s last point - I’d hit the ‘recent updates’
link on Brickshelf a couple times a day.
|
And it appears that the mass migration is on! If you go to maj.com, its
recent pages are filled with LEGO MOCs...
|
Am I the only one that’s a bit nervous about about a mass migration to
maj.com? If a mass migration happens, the maj.com bandwidth shoots through
the roof and Kevin is once again facing overwhelming bandwidth costs. If this
happens, does he shut down that site too, thus leaving everyone in the same
spot they’re in now? Generally, we don’t know if the issue is that Kevin is
done hosting anything or only done hosting brickshelf.com.
Without any communication from Kevin on this matter, I’d be hesitant to rush
to migrate to maj.com. But perhaps that’s just me.
|
I’ve decided to start migrating my BS account to MAJ. Fortunately for me, my
gallery is pretty small. What is really needed is a migration bot that
automates the upload process to MAJ after BSbackup utility has finished its
downloads from brickshelf.
I too am a bit nervous about how bandwidth on MAJ will be affected. Without any
stats from Kevin there is no way to tell if MAJ>>BS or BS>>MAJ. It would really
be nice to hear his reasons for deciding to shut the site down. If it is
financial, I’m sure the community could find a solution. If it is simply time,
would he be willing to turn the site administration over to the community?
Regardless of what hosting service people use, I really hope that Kevin
maintains the BS content somewhere even if it is off line. I’m sure that alot
of content will not be migrated and will be lost to the online community.
It would be really nice if he could donate (or loan) the drives where the BS
content is stored to lugnet or peeron or someone in the community
(ambassadors??) for safe keeping until a community administered & funded
solution could be established. At that point, the original BS content could be
restored.
drc
|
|
|
