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I was thinking about adding a village to my medieval Japanes countryside
today when a thought occurred to me. Did they have any land vehicles at
all? I can't seem to remember ever seeing a medieval Japanese cart or
chariot. Everything is carried around, either by hand or on the backs of
horses. Am I crazy, or were there no wheels in medieval Japan?
- Mike.
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I'm sure that they had wheels, but the terrain was too mountainous to make
wheeled carts very useful.
-Andy Lynch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Rayhawk" <rayhawk@artcenter.edu>
> I was thinking about adding a village to my medieval Japanes countryside
> today when a thought occurred to me. Did they have any land vehicles at
> all? I can't seem to remember ever seeing a medieval Japanese cart or
> chariot. Everything is carried around, either by hand or on the backs of
> horses. Am I crazy, or were there no wheels in medieval Japan?
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Ug. I already replied to this thread, but It occurred to me that there may
also have been a "class taboo" on wheeled transportation. That is, only the
emperor or high ranked samurai could use them? Of course, if that were
true, then the samurai would undoubtedly consider riding in a wheeled cart
disgraceful, and therefore only the Emperor would use them.
-Andy Lynch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Rayhawk" <rayhawk@artcenter.edu>
> I was thinking about adding a village to my medieval Japanes countryside
> today when a thought occurred to me. Did they have any land vehicles at
> all? I can't seem to remember ever seeing a medieval Japanese cart or
> chariot. Everything is carried around, either by hand or on the backs of
> horses. Am I crazy, or were there no wheels in medieval Japan?
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In lugnet.castle, Mike Rayhawk writes:
> I was thinking about adding a village to my medieval Japanes countryside
> today when a thought occurred to me. Did they have any land vehicles at
> all? I can't seem to remember ever seeing a medieval Japanese cart or
> chariot. Everything is carried around, either by hand or on the backs of
> horses. Am I crazy, or were there no wheels in medieval Japan?
>
>
> - Mike.
Your sanity prevails: wheeled vehicles were under extreme restrictions in
Japan. In part for the damage they did to the roads, and in part to keep
the peasants in their place.
Bruce
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Along this line of question, what other weapons were used in fuedal japan?
I always add armies to the castle series (european, but I have never
prepped an army for the ninjas. I have plenty of figures to make
an army, I just haven't done it because I don't know what other
weapons to give them.
Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
fuedal japan well?
thanks, zack
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In lugnet.castle, Zack Stackhouse writes:
> Along this line of question, what other weapons were used in fuedal japan?
> I always add armies to the castle series (european, but I have never
> prepped an army for the ninjas. I have plenty of figures to make
> an army, I just haven't done it because I don't know what other
> weapons to give them.
>
> Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
> fuedal japan well?
I haven't seen it yet myself, but from what I hear Akira Kurosawa's "Ran" is
far and away the best movie for medieval Japanese battles.
While ninjas had every kind of bizarre weapon you could think of, traditional
armies had a very basic assortment of weapons:
Some type of longsword (usually a katana), usually accompanied by a shortsword
and knife. In later times these could only be carried by samurai.
A bladed polearm (naginata), which was originally used by samurai but later
came to be viewed as a peasants' weapon.
A longbow (yumi), which was much taller on top than on bottom, in order to
facilitate its being fired from horseback. This eventually became a samurai-
only weapon.
A musket (arquebus), imported from Europe. Its use was considered dishonorable
for samurai and was used only by peasant conscripts.
The Japanese used cannons as naval armament but as far as I know did not use
them in land campaigns or in their fortresses. I'm sure someone will correct
me if I am mistaken.
As a side note, my samurai and bandit armies fought for control of Nagateppo
Monastery back in February, I don't remember if I ever posted the site here.
If anyone wants to check it out it's at
http://www.teleport.com/~rayhawks/games/n-setup.htm . Historical accuracy
wasn't a big priority at the time so please ignore the many glaring
anachronisms.
- Mike.
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I actually have already visited your Nagateppo site through Brik Wars. I have
already gathered ideas from your battle...excellent weapons!
In lugnet.castle, Mike Rayhawk writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Zack Stackhouse writes:
> > Along this line of question, what other weapons were used in fuedal japan?
> > I always add armies to the castle series (european, but I have never
> > prepped an army for the ninjas. I have plenty of figures to make
> > an army, I just haven't done it because I don't know what other
> > weapons to give them.
> >
> > Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
> > fuedal japan well?
>
> I haven't seen it yet myself, but from what I hear Akira Kurosawa's "Ran" is
> far and away the best movie for medieval Japanese battles.
>
> While ninjas had every kind of bizarre weapon you could think of, traditional
> armies had a very basic assortment of weapons:
>
> Some type of longsword (usually a katana), usually accompanied by a shortsword
> and knife. In later times these could only be carried by samurai.
>
> A bladed polearm (naginata), which was originally used by samurai but later
> came to be viewed as a peasants' weapon.
>
> A longbow (yumi), which was much taller on top than on bottom, in order to
> facilitate its being fired from horseback. This eventually became a samurai-
> only weapon.
>
> A musket (arquebus), imported from Europe. Its use was considered dishonorable
> for samurai and was used only by peasant conscripts.
>
> The Japanese used cannons as naval armament but as far as I know did not use
> them in land campaigns or in their fortresses. I'm sure someone will correct
> me if I am mistaken.
>
> As a side note, my samurai and bandit armies fought for control of Nagateppo
> Monastery back in February, I don't remember if I ever posted the site here.
> If anyone wants to check it out it's at
> http://www.teleport.com/~rayhawks/games/n-setup.htm . Historical accuracy
> wasn't a big priority at the time so please ignore the many glaring
> anachronisms.
>
>
> - Mike.
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In lugnet.castle, Mike Rayhawk writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Zack Stackhouse writes:
> > Along this line of question, what other weapons were used in fuedal japan?
> > I always add armies to the castle series (european, but I have never
> > prepped an army for the ninjas. I have plenty of figures to make
> > an army, I just haven't done it because I don't know what other
> > weapons to give them.
> >
> > Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
> > fuedal japan well?
>
> I haven't seen it yet myself, but from what I hear Akira Kurosawa's "Ran" is
> far and away the best movie for medieval Japanese battles.
It captures the sweep and movement of battlefields very well. The movie can
also be a little tedious at points. Kurosawa's films always seem to hover
around 1600 (firearms usually appear) and I recommend them in general: Seven
Samurai, Yojimbo, Redbeard, and Hidden Fortress, all come to mind
>
> While ninjas had every kind of bizarre weapon you could think of, traditional
> armies had a very basic assortment of weapons:
>
> Some type of longsword (usually a katana), usually accompanied by a shortsword
> and knife. In later times these could only be carried by samurai.
>
> A bladed polearm (naginata), which was originally used by samurai but later
> came to be viewed as a peasants' weapon.
Mike's fushion of a Katana, 1x1 round, and a "bathroom plunger" works very
well. Cavalry used this a lot.
>
> A longbow (yumi), which was much taller on top than on bottom, in order to
> facilitate its being fired from horseback. This eventually became a samurai-
> only weapon.
>
> A musket (arquebus), imported from Europe. Its use was considered dishonorable
> for samurai and was used only by peasant conscripts.
Add to this the basic spear (yari) for the non-samurai.
>
> The Japanese used cannons as naval armament but as far as I know did not use
> them in land campaigns or in their fortresses. I'm sure someone will correct
> me if I am mistaken.
>
> As a side note, my samurai and bandit armies fought for control of Nagateppo
> Monastery back in February, I don't remember if I ever posted the site here.
> If anyone wants to check it out it's at
> http://www.teleport.com/~rayhawks/games/n-setup.htm . Historical accuracy
> wasn't a big priority at the time so please ignore the many glaring
> anachronisms.
>
>
> - Mike.
Yup, you did. It was fun.
Bruce
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:48:30 GMT, "Mike Rayhawk"
<rayhawk@artcenter.edu> wrote:
> In lugnet.castle, Zack Stackhouse writes:
> > Along this line of question, what other weapons were used in fuedal japan?
> > I always add armies to the castle series (european, but I have never
> > prepped an army for the ninjas. I have plenty of figures to make
> > an army, I just haven't done it because I don't know what other
> > weapons to give them.
> >
> > Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
> > fuedal japan well?
>
> I haven't seen it yet myself, but from what I hear Akira Kurosawa's "Ran" is
> far and away the best movie for medieval Japanese battles.
"Ran" *IS* fabulous but its late medieval if medieval at all, primary
weapons in it are bows, swords and MUSKET'S. Fabulous scene of the
various sides going back and forth with the advantage swinging one way
or another....
My view is muskets don't belong in castle :^) but other's views may
differ , and rightly so as they are not me!
>
> While ninjas had every kind of bizarre weapon you could think of, traditional
> armies had a very basic assortment of weapons:
>
> Some type of longsword (usually a katana), usually accompanied by a shortsword
> and knife. In later times these could only be carried by samurai.
>
> A bladed polearm (naginata), which was originally used by samurai but later
> came to be viewed as a peasants' weapon.
>
> A longbow (yumi), which was much taller on top than on bottom, in order to
> facilitate its being fired from horseback. This eventually became a samurai-
> only weapon.
>
> A musket (arquebus), imported from Europe. Its use was considered dishonorable
> for samurai and was used only by peasant conscripts.
>
> The Japanese used cannons as naval armament but as far as I know did not use
> them in land campaigns or in their fortresses. I'm sure someone will correct
> me if I am mistaken.
>
> As a side note, my samurai and bandit armies fought for control of Nagateppo
> Monastery back in February, I don't remember if I ever posted the site here.
> If anyone wants to check it out it's at
> http://www.teleport.com/~rayhawks/games/n-setup.htm . Historical accuracy
> wasn't a big priority at the time so please ignore the many glaring
> anachronisms.
>
>
> - Mike.
Mike
--
All other themes are just spare parts for Castle!
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In lugnet.castle, Zack Stackhouse writes:
> Along this line of question, what other weapons were used in fuedal japan?
> I always add armies to the castle series (european, but I have never
> prepped an army for the ninjas. I have plenty of figures to make
> an army, I just haven't done it because I don't know what other
> weapons to give them.
>
> Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
> fuedal japan well?
>
> thanks, zack
Recently, I saw "Throne of Blood" (1957), a great film by Akira Kurosawa.
Subtitled, of course. Its a remake of "Macbeth". It is also called "Cobweb
Castle" and "Spider Web Castle", or by its Japanese title, "Kumonosu jo".
This movie is in black and white, so you won't see any color ideas. But
what you will see is detailed closeups of well-equipped samurai warriors.
You might also be inspired by the settings (including castles) and the
incredible story.
Good luck finding that one at Blockbuster!!!! I suggest an independent
video store.
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> "Ran" *IS* fabulous but its late medieval if medieval at all, primary
> weapons in it are bows, swords and MUSKET'S. Fabulous scene of the
> various sides going back and forth with the advantage swinging one way
> or another....
> My view is muskets don't belong in castle :^) but other's views may
> differ , and rightly so as they are not me!
I couldn't agree more, muskets don't belong in castle, nor do cannons fot
that matter. But since the ninja theme came with 'gunpowder' I figure you
just keep
the traditional castle away from fuedal japan, except for the occasional
encounter.
Didn't the chineese invent gun powder around 1250 (braveheart era), but it
didn't take hold for a long time, and when it did, europeans were all over
it actually selling the idea back to asian dynasties? (kind of a run-on,
but you get what I mean)
-Zack
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I got in on this string a bit late so if I repeat what someone else said I
apologize. I was an Asian History major in college and I must say that one
of the best movies depicting medevil era Japan is the Movie "Shogun" by
James Clavell (spelling?). Very accurate in almost all portrayals of life
in Japan during this era. Also an outstanding book if you can't find the
movie. As a warning the movie was like 8 hours long and started out as a TV
mini-series. Check it out and you won't be disappointed.
Andy
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I loved the book Shogun. I've read it a few times, it is very enjoyable. A
glimpse into a very different culture and time period from my own.
I also remember that there is a short comparison to life in medieval Europe,
through Blackthorne's thoughts of his wife and family back home.
-Andy Lynch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Krug" <akrug@oz-online.net>
> I got in on this string a bit late so if I repeat what someone else said I
> apologize. I was an Asian History major in college and I must say that • one
> of the best movies depicting medevil era Japan is the Movie "Shogun" by
> James Clavell (spelling?). Very accurate in almost all portrayals of life
> in Japan during this era. Also an outstanding book if you can't find the
> movie. As a warning the movie was like 8 hours long and started out as a • TV
> mini-series. Check it out and you won't be disappointed.
>
> Andy
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In lugnet.castle, Mike Timm writes:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:48:30 GMT, "Mike Rayhawk"
> <rayhawk@artcenter.edu> wrote:
>
> > In lugnet.castle, Zack Stackhouse writes:
> > > Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
> > > fuedal japan well?
> >
> > I haven't seen it yet myself, but from what I hear Akira Kurosawa's "Ran" is
> > far and away the best movie for medieval Japanese battles.
>
> "Ran" *IS* fabulous but its late medieval if medieval at all, primary
> weapons in it are bows, swords and MUSKET'S. Fabulous scene of the
> various sides going back and forth with the advantage swinging one way
> or another....
>
> My view is muskets don't belong in castle :^) but other's views may
> differ , and rightly so as they are not me!
Muskets, from the European standpoint, exit the Castle line, though I do
make "hand gonnes" with a "bathroom plunger" and 1x1 round, appropriate to
the 1400s. But from the Japanese standpoint, the late 1500s and 1600s are
still considered (late) medieval. Dump the firearms if you wanna mix the
Japanese stuff with Euro-Castles, but keep 'em if you wanna mix them with
Pirates.
Bruce
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But the Japanese didn't think it was very realistic.
When I lived in Japan I asked about it, and the general response from
Japanese people I talked to is there is a western bias to the show (there
probably is since we filmed it), and they were unimpressed.
Daniel
In lugnet.castle, Andy Lynch writes:
> I loved the book Shogun. I've read it a few times, it is very enjoyable. A
> glimpse into a very different culture and time period from my own.
>
> I also remember that there is a short comparison to life in medieval Europe,
> through Blackthorne's thoughts of his wife and family back home.
>
> -Andy Lynch
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Krug" <akrug@oz-online.net>
> > I got in on this string a bit late so if I repeat what someone else said I
> > apologize. I was an Asian History major in college and I must say that • one
> > of the best movies depicting medevil era Japan is the Movie "Shogun" by
> > James Clavell (spelling?). Very accurate in almost all portrayals of life
> > in Japan during this era. Also an outstanding book if you can't find the
> > movie. As a warning the movie was like 8 hours long and started out as a • TV
> > mini-series. Check it out and you won't be disappointed.
> >
> > Andy
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In lugnet.castle, Zack Stackhouse writes:
> Along this line of question, what other weapons were used in fuedal japan?
> I always add armies to the castle series (european, but I have never
> prepped an army for the ninjas. I have plenty of figures to make
> an army, I just haven't done it because I don't know what other
> weapons to give them.
>
> Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
> fuedal japan well?
>
> thanks, zack
The japanese comic series "Lone Wolf and Cub" is currently being fully
reprinted for the first time uncensored for western readers, and i can't
recommend it enough.
It first appeared in Japan about 30 years ago and an amazing lot of research
went into the story and the art. Each volume includes a glossary and history
section making it a great reference when it comes to lego.
A new 300 page volume is released each month, it is currently up to vol.2 in a
series of 28 and should be available if you ask any comic book store.
If anyone reading this is familiar with the story, do you have ANY ideas as to
how to make Daigoro's baby cart? I've been stuck on this for months (I'm not
even going to try and make the actual kid) the closest i've come is sticking
grey racing wheels (minus tread) on the bottom of a brown adventurers crate,
i'd like to have spears doubling as handles, but it doesn't seem possible.
-Ive
I REALLY hope at least one other ninja fan checks the series out.
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Andy
Glad to find someone else who has taken the time to read the book. Even the
movie takes a significant amount of time to finish (not very often that you
find that to be the case).
The movie is so good because it was very well researched and put together.
I think you are right about Blackthorne making the comparison between
cultures. In fact the whole story seems to jump from one cultural shock to
another for poor old Blackthorne (although he seems to adapt fairly well).
I remember the bathing scene in particular when he seems shocked that they
want him to take a bath and thinks it will ruin his health. Seems the
Japanese were a little ahead of Europe on this point (heavy use of perfume
only goes so far!!!).
Andy
In lugnet.castle, Andy Lynch writes:
> I loved the book Shogun. I've read it a few times, it is very enjoyable. A
> glimpse into a very different culture and time period from my own.
>
> I also remember that there is a short comparison to life in medieval Europe,
> through Blackthorne's thoughts of his wife and family back home.
>
> -Andy Lynch
>
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:27:43 GMT, "Bruce Schlickbernd"
<corsair@schlickbernd.org> wrote:
> In lugnet.castle, Mike Timm writes:
> > My view is muskets don't belong in castle :^) but other's views may
> > differ , and rightly so as they are not me!
>
> Muskets, from the European standpoint, exit the Castle line, though I do
> make "hand gonnes" with a "bathroom plunger" and 1x1 round, appropriate to
> the 1400s. But from the Japanese standpoint, the late 1500s and 1600s are
> still considered (late) medieval. Dump the firearms if you wanna mix the
> Japanese stuff with Euro-Castles, but keep 'em if you wanna mix them with
> Pirates.
>
> Bruce
That's just what I do, any of the gunpowder devices get removed and
then they fir in pretty good with the rest of the Castle stuff I have.
It just means that the Ninja based minifigs get more spears as they
lose that number of firearms, the halberds don't fit well with the
Ninja line to me, european Castle I love them for.
Mike
--
All other themes are just spare parts for Castle!
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--
Paul Davidson
> > Any suggestions? Anybody know of any GOOD movies that represent
> > fuedal japan well?
Anything by Akira Kurosawa rules!!! (very accurate as well)
Lone Wolf and Cub isn't bad either. (it's a series)
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