Subject:
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Re: RCX & RIS, a fading glory?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Thu, 30 Jan 2003 03:04:35 GMT
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Viewed:
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1539 times
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> What I wanted to see happen would have solved that problem quite neatly.
>
> If Lego designed a SMALL computer which had an external bus onto which could
> be plugged ROM chips (packaged in - say - a standard 2x2 brick), then they
> could sell the computer with a ROM that has "play value" (makes the robot
> play 'tag' with a flashlight or something). There could be a whole range of
> ROM chip bricks with different and "interesting-to-kids" programs in them - and
> a Flash-ROM chip that you could program yourself as an optional extra (presumably
> with some kind of a PC interface and a CD-ROM full of Lego-esque programming tools).
>
> This would allow kids an easy entry into robotics - collecting pre-programmed ROM's
> that do fun things - then an upgrade path to something just like Mindstorms.
Oh, but there is one - it's called the Micro Scout and we all know how
versatile and "upgradable to Mindstorms" that is...
Any other computeresque brick that does anything kids would find cool (i.e.
does more than stand still and react to a light and start beeping) would be
as expensive as the RCX.
As soon as you'd start making "cool ROMs" you'd have the problem of
incompatibility - not with the computer but with the construction of the
Spy/robot set the kid just bought - that ROM doesn't work with those limbs
or wheels or sensors etc etc
If it's programmable, then the kid would just have to know how to operate a
PC and burn a Flash EPROM - easy entry into Robotics? :o The RIS SDK really
isn't THAT complex... and the most 'interesting-to-kids' program is the one
he made himself.
Seeing as the RCX doesn't really bound with hitech electronics, it's hard to
see a decent programmable computer brick (i.e. better than the Scout) being
any cheaper to buy for the kid.
> If you got a little smart about it, I bet you could design ROM-bricks with
> flow-chart elements printed on them that could be stacked to build programs...
> then progress to a CD-ROM that let you stack 'virtual' ROM-bricks to generate
> programs that could be downloaded into a Flash-memory-brick. Kids would be
> able to slide from a physical programming metaphor into a virtual version of
> the same thing.
I'd like to see Lego make a 'repeat/while brick' that manages to repeat
another ROM brick... and you'd have to buy as many ROM bricks as your
program is long... 'OK I connected the Sensor Trigger ROM to the 1 second
Blink ROM, now what if I want it to beep for 2 seconds AND back the motor
when the sensor hits something?' How is this physical programming rather
than virtual? And would he be annoyed if the store would be out of the brick
he needed? A software solution would be instantly usable.
And now the robot has a 'RCX' type computer brick and for each limb a
cluster of ROM bricks sticking out, instead of one RCX brick and two
wires... not really aesthetical, and if your program does anything useful
you'd have an assymetrical 3x5" 'flowchart' cluster on the top of the
robot's head... what a neat solution! ;)
The only thing LEGO has to do to save this is to sell the Scout or RCX as
loose items (instead of bundling them in $200 sets) so kids (or even their
fathers:) can afford starting to use programs, and they need to make really
goodlooking, affordable (i.e. not too big), trendy sets that have a CD with
ready-made, one-click downloadable programs that anyone could get started
with. (As in 'bigger programs than what's in the DSDK'.)
The problem is making a robot the does something useful, period. (Even with
the RCX+SDK+a "Master Builder" with a degree, it's pretty hard :)
The problem is that kids have to learn basic programming skillz, even to
begin using ROM bricks. 'Flowcharts' for kids in ages who get turned on by
Spybotics? Long shot. And there's already flowcharts in the RCX SDK...
So LEGO: all you have to do is stop 'overselling' the robots' functions (so
the kids don't get disappointed when they've put it together), plus not make
a gazillion unique bricks that fits into this but not that set.
Personally, I think a hi-quality speech/synthesizer chip built into the
Scout/RCX-like controller would do more for sales than anything you're
suggesting... Can't see why that wouldn't fit into many different themes and
be a generic Lego brick, I'd love to buy a speech brick that has samples and
laser sounds from Star Wars, and you could use it in the Imperial Starship
and others, the sculpture of Yoda, your own Johnny Five, etc etc
Or even - god forbid - put in a $2 mike and a $5 flash card! Eavesdropping
(recording when an intruder appears), and exploring their environment
looking for fun sounds to record and use, would be endless fun to kids! (At
least I had fun with a regular tape recorder when I was a kid, rowing out in
the boat and dropping stones of different sizes to get a range of 'plooonk'
sounds hehe :D also recording my parent's quibbles over a game of Scrabble
and playing it back to them :DDD)
And if the Scout/RCX had a couple multicolor LEDs on it, (instead of buying
a $10 lamp for each eye, getting the right color transparent brick, and
connecting it) they could make it blink the way they wanted, too. Or light
up the insides of a truck. Or put it on the front of a train as headlights.
That's the kind of bundling Lego should do - the way they used to - when
'little did much'. Also (general whine here) more reusable bricks - then the
kids wouldn't feel so bad if the robot sucked - he could always disassemble
it and build something else (this is not the case for most of these "theme"
sets).
In other words, make a really useful and versatile little gadget that you
could either program yourself or plug in bundles CDs. The Micro Scout would
have been perfect with a couple LEDS, mike, PC link (IR LED+sensor) and a
touch sensor. (You could always bring the bumper action to the Scout via
pulleys or axles.) If suddenly you wanted to make a walking robot you'd buy
another Scout before buying the set proper. With bundled CDs with programs
that make them talk to each other (without the kid having to hack the IR
link code=) you could make some interesting, sellable bots with tidy little
Microscout modules with overcapacity for 1000 other projects like train
control or anything.
/henrik <---making a drawing of the ultimate gadget :P
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: RCX & RIS, a fading glory?
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| (...) That's pretty depressing - if Spybotics don't make money, Mindstorms is doomed - and if Spybotics does make money Mindstorms *is* Spybotics...so we're still doomed. (...) What I wanted to see happen would have solved that problem quite neatly. (...) (22 years ago, 29-Jan-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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