Subject:
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Re: A little self examination?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:09:04 GMT
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Viewed:
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411 times
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Hi Selçuk,
After reading your post and Tim's, I must throw in a "Me too" (as much as
those posts are highly detested around here ;-).
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Selçuk Göre writes:
[..]
> I'm strongly
> against elitism and alienating newcomers from the place.
As am I. I don't think anyone is really *for* it, but many people might not
notice they are doing this. That's when it gets to be a problem (or even
moreso when it is done intentionally-- but I don't think there is someone on
lugnet that really is).
[..]
> Back to the subject, we are here from very different parts of this
> planet, with very different characters, backgrounds, interests,
> cultures, understanding, tolerances, incomes, rules, etc. However we are
> still a community.
Agreed 100%.
> Maybe the only common thing between some of the
> people here is the love of the brick, but we still obey some written and
> unwritten rules here, mostly nothing but the common sense.
In the ideal situation, yes, we all do. Then there are times when not everyone
does, in the heat of the moment, and yes, it happens.
> Being a community, besides from the rules, also has its own natures.
> Every community has its famous people, i.e. "unofficial leader types". I
> don't call this elitism.
Most definitely. We're a small society, even, and any society has the leader
types and the followers. From what little sociology I've learned, some people
are just born leaders; some can't help being a little bossy, others have a
plain "let's stop the talking and all start doing something about it"
approach, and others will just speak up more and so have their opinions heard
(and perhaps respected). Then the majority of the people will speak up here
and there, but mostly keep quiet or just be generally helpful.
[snip many true examples]
> Everyone
> free to be famous here, just as everyone is free to participate.
> Elitism, in my mind, is not allowing people to participate who is not a
> famous one.
Very true. There are no restraints here, and I've seen newcomers
become "famous"/"leaders" in a matter of a few weeks, or just become generally
known. Lugnet as a community, a mini-society, or whatever, is not elitist in
that sense... not at all.
> As I always said, Lego is not the purpose of my life, just as for
> most of the others I think, it's just a spare time fun.
--like Tim mentioned in his reply - that varies. I know at some point or other
lego was a "way of life" for me, but it's not really anymore. (Still a major
hobby, but not a way of life, no.) And there certainly are people for whom it
is. But there's nothing wrong with either way.
> The point here is, if someone is distinguishable from the crowd by
> anything he/she perform that relates to the founding purpose of the
> community, he/she will be famous than the other participants of the
> community. If you are distinguishable, then naturally you are rare, and
> rare means "not for everyone". People should accept this.
Yeah.
[..]
> Many people might even wonder when they see my
> member number (#4) who is this guy?
LOL, mostly because I know exactly who you are and I think a considerable
amount of people do. ;-)
But yes, I see your point. Not everyone can be famous, and many people might
be known in their little area of lugnet (e.g. .[insert theme here], .cad,
or .o-t.[whatever]) but not so much in the general sense.
[..]
> The other point should made be clear that, I'm strongly against any
> forced "leadership" or "popularity", which is the true elitism. Let the
> popularity and or leadership go naturally. I objected before to both
> "Lugnet Police Force" and "article rating" issues only for this reason.
Yeah...
[..]
> Being alienated can be (mostly) related to having expectations which is
> unreasonably high. This also works for any community, any group of
> people, either virtual or real.
Right. So we should (all) be just a leeeetle careful when responding to a
post, without knowing if the person is a newbie or not, or (for example) has
english as a second language, or is relatively young, etc. (Hehe - I remember
getting into some scrapes for EACH of those reasons... <grin>)
> In brief, I believe our community is not an elitist one in its current
> form. And I wish this will continue like that.
Agreed entirely.
> Tim Courtney wrote:
> > I was talking to a friend yesterday about the whole deal - someone who has
> > slipped away from Lugnet intentionally but unnoticed. That person feels
> > that the community is elitist, and from that person's perspective I
> > understand. They feel that when they post here people ignore them, that
> > they're a good candidate to kill a thread, etc. I don't like it that my
> > friend has had that experience here.
That is too bad. I hope that friend realizes that no one intended to hurt
him/her. I doubt anyone really saw him/her as a "good candidate to kill a
thread"... and it's really sad that someone feels that way. I hope he/she
comes back, just to try again...
> > And someone slap me if I'm crazy. I'm writing this because I think that
> > what we saw yesterday was pretty serious, and if the community has anything
> > to do with it I'd like to see that change. If it was all Matthew and
> > whatever he was smoking, that's all fine and dandy I s'pose.
<grin>
<slap>
j/k, Tim, you're not crazy. But really, over-analyzing ourselves won't get us
very far. LUGNET is, for the *most* part, a great place. But even the best
places and people can't prevent everyone from getting hurt once in a while.
It's just inavoidable, to some extent. I think we aren't elitist in the sense
of really keeping someone (anyone!) from participating (as long as they follow
the basic rules, o'course).
Tim also wrote:
> After reading opinions on this, I believe the same. I do think that everyone
> here could stand to be a bit nicer to each other, and a bit more accepting to
> other ideas for how things could be done, to newbies, etc.
Oh, most definitely...
> This will help
> foster better relationships for the community and bring us closer together -
> and hopefully translate into some cool real life experiences.
>
> I for one have met many people through Lugnet in person, and a handful of them
> have become really good friends of mine. I'm greatful for that. I'm also
> greatful that those people get to see me for who I am, rather than for what I
> do. And I'm glad that I get to see them for the same.
I agree. This has happened to me too (whether I've met these friends in RL or
not). I'm *grate*ful for that, too. (Heck, I've met my bf here... ;-)
Now... let's get back to lego!
-Shiri
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: A little self examination?
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| (...) The good thing is this, as you already said. There is no one who do it intentionally. No clans here like veterans or lamers. So the problem for newbies might be having too much expectations. But this should be dealed by their own selves. (...) (...) (24 years ago, 23-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A little self examination?
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| Hi Tim, Actually, I'm also thinking the subject of "is lugnet elitist?" from time to time, and even throw out some of my 0.02 Turkish liras about the subject in some cases, both in RTL and here in Lugnet. I'm strongly against elitism and alienating (...) (24 years ago, 19-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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