Subject:
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Re: Mormon bashing again
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:09:03 GMT
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Viewed:
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657 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Patricia Schempp writes:
>
> Oh...don't get me started on separation of church and state. Some recent
> steps in this country like posting the ten commandments in schools and
> teaching creationism are complete violations of this in my opinion.
Like it or not the ten commandments had a lot to do with the foundation of our
entire way of life in this country. They are a historical example of a great
legal system, just as Hammurabi's code. This country was founded by people who
accepted and, for the most part, believed and practiced them (no nitpicks
please); the system they devised is the greatest ever devised by imperfect men,
which in my opinion gives creedence if not validation to those founding
principles. You can't deny their efficacy, nor their basic ideal - summarized
by Jesus as, "Love your God and love your neighbor". Newsflash: this country
has religious roots, it exists because of religion. If the pilgrims hadn't fled
religious persecution in search of the opportunity to practice what they
believed without oppression we wouldn't even be permitted to have these types
of discussions. We have freedom of religion not freedom from religion. Atheism
is also a religion, as is secular humanism, yet we are to bend over backwards
not to offend these two extremely small minority groups. Posting the ten
commandments is not a violation of church and state - a concept, by the way,
that is not a part of any official document, least of all the constitution. It
is reference in a private correspondence of Thomas Jefferson and a second
party. The idea is that the Church cannot dictate politics or matters of State
(because of the rule of the Catholic church over Europe during the dark ages
which the Church had actually caused by blocking the flow of Greek literature
including the Bible at Constantinople) and that the State cannot MANDATE a
national religion. Posting the ten commandments is far from mandating anything.
That the founders ADVOCATED a particular religion is clear, the separation
concept regards a mandate only.
As far as teaching creation, evolution is just as much faith based, if not
more, than creationism. The mathematical probabilities are actually on the side
of an Architect - which all scientific journals admit, due to the fact that the
more we learn the more we realize the folly of Darwin. Much of Darwins theory
and evidence were contrived and/or fabricated. Evolution, in the scientific
community is all but dead, yet for lack of a substitute it remains because the
alternative implies accountability to a Supreme Being, which is reprehensible
to them. As for the mathematics - according to their numbers, it takes 240
million years for the smallest of mutations to become universal to a species.
Considering the staggering diversity of life forms on this planet it is
mathematically impossible to account for them all. Not to mention the fact that
if you measure backwards to the 300 - 400 billion years they allow for, our sun
would've been so large that it's gravity would've drawn this entire solar
system to a fiery end.
But my point here is not to prove one or the other, but to state that neither
posting the ten commandments nor teaching creation constitutes a mandate by
government. Besides the fact that this whole concept is not a part of the
constitution anyway!
> I don't care what people believe, but I really don't think public schools
> are the place for religion.
I'm old enough to remember when the religious aspects of this countries origins
were taught. Since they've been removed and substituted with the secular
alternatives is it any wonder why our society has decayed as it has? If we tell
people that they are animals and morality is relative, why are we suprised by
things like Columbine? Animals do these types of things. It's normal for
animals to do these types of things. If there is no moral standard outside of
that which we impose on ourselves, then no one can say that what those two kids
did is wrong. Yet we know that it was. If there is no objective standard of
right and wrong that transcends ourselves then we have fabricated it ourselves
and it really doesn't exist and hence can be modified by majority rule to suit
ourselves. We know right and wrong because it has been written inside of us.
When someone wrongs us we know it, because it DOES exist apart from what we
think. If there is a rule or law, such as gravity, of necessity there is also a
law giver. If there was no such thing as light, there would be no such thing as
darkness; the fact that we know when someone wrongs us proves that there is a
right, otherwise we wouldn't be able to conceive wrong. The fact that we gather
in to groups and universally come up with very similar laws to govern ourselves
is evidence of a law outside ourselves. An atheistic society will always lead
to oppression, and why not - survival of the fittest right. Yet we all strive
and yearn to be free, people everywhere risk death to come here to be free. But
according to Atheism the tragedies of Communism and Nazi Germany must be
acceptable. When we choose to believe something we must consider it's ultimate
logical end. Without a God, anything is permissible, I defy anyone who doesn't
believe in God to disprove that. If there is no accountability beyond ourselves
then there is no meaning/sanctity to life and anyone can do whatever they wish
to fulfill themselves - including massacre 13 classmates. Apparently, they were
so fulfilled they took their own lives; either that or they judged their own
actions and executed themselves - both of which cannot be condemned in a
society that constantly cries, "Who are YOU to impose YOUR morality on ME!"
End of tirade, for now,
Bill
> Patricia Schempp
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) Hear, hear. Creationism isn't science, it's a tool for making converts to Christianity. Similarly, posting the Ten Commandments in schools proclaims that authority comes from god ("thou shalt have no other gods before me"). I just want to make (...) (24 years ago, 2-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| I suggest anyone who wants more insight into what the founding fathers intended, check out this site: (URL) particular reference to the posting of the Ten Comandments, here is one little quote from the article on relion: (...) To me this suggests (...) (24 years ago, 2-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) men, (...) fled (...) anything. (...) I think Frank has answered succinctly about the founding fathers' views on religion. No particular religion is to be advanced over another. The Puritans were doing their best to persecute other religions, (...) (24 years ago, 2-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) Oh...don't get me started on separation of church and state. Some recent steps in this country like posting the ten commandments in schools and teaching creationism are complete violations of this in my opinion. Of course my family has a long (...) (24 years ago, 1-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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