Subject:
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Re: Tim Robbins "Countering a Wave of Hate"
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:00:17 GMT
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Viewed:
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315 times
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Coming back to a loose end... let me preface this by saying that I happen to
agree with much of what Mr. Robbins said in his speech to the national press
club about the dangers that americans face.
Ashcroft is prima facia scary... The Patriot Act (and P II) ARE scary and we
ought to worry about them, for example. The war was not a good idea in my
view (justified or not, I remain of the opinion it ought not to have been
our problem to solve), and on and on. Much of what he said is true and scary.
Where I take issue with Mr. Robbins is with the notion that his speech ought
to be without consequence. I'd think much more of him if he pointed out
these things and then said "I accept that this might cost me sales or
speaking gigs, but it's important to get the word out" instead of
complaining that he's being discriminated against.
Free speech isn't free. It has costs. Mr. Robbins ought to be wearing those
costs as a badge of honor, not shirking them.
This post by John Scalzi (web published author... happened to be cruising
his site looking for followons to _Old Man's War_ and ran across it) struck
me as pretty apropos...
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/archives/000083.html
(that's not to say I agree with him on everything, by any means.. he's pro
D.A.R.E for criminy's sake!!! blech!... but his thoughts on this are
reasoned and balanced, unlike the braying voices on Rush and in the NYT)
Now on to Mr. Prosper...
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Terry Prosper writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
> > But Mr. Robbins isn't a deep enough thinker to understand what you (and
> > others) are telling him. He'd rather just whine about how now everyone is
> > out to get him. I don't see HIM standing up to defend the rights of others
> > to speak freely on what they believe.
>
> Oh? He is not? I suppose you are smarter than him?
I suppose I might be... but how does one determine intelligence?
I can name off a bunch of (many essentially meaningless, like SAT scores, IQ
scores, competence in MY profession, and a few like common sense and
situational awareness that are meaningful) metrics where I bet I outshine him.
But what would that prove? You could no doubt rattle off some (competence in
HIS profession, I know for a fact I am not a very good actor... business
acumen, etc.) where he outshines me. So what?
This retort to my assertion seems flawed and beside the point, Terry.
> Because, as far as I
> know, Mr. Robbins is a respected person in Holywood precisely because he is
> a very intelligent and smart person.
Well, we could get into the culture of Hollywood and what engenders what
passes for respect there if you wanted to but I suspect that smartness is
not the primary currency of respect. I suspect it's Q numbers and tracking
polls.
> If you can threat people because of what they say, then you limit their
> freedom of speech. Considering what Tim Robbins has gone through, I would
> say that he has every right to say that. And he doesn't have to say that
> others can speak freely. The fact that he didn't say it doesn't mean the
> opposite.
This paragraph makes little or no sense to me. And I suspect it's not
because I'm stupid. I'm not sure anyone's threatening him. They're just
choosing not to hire him.
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Tim Robbins "Countering a Wave of Hate"
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| (...) I was yesterday reminded of the case of John Rocker. For those of you that aren't familiar with Rocker's situation, he was a star closing pitcher for the Atlanta Braves, very popular and highly regarded with the organization. In a Sports (...) (21 years ago, 23-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Tim Robbins "Countering a Wave of Hate"
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| How exactly is what you are advocating different from cosigning discrimination? useful definitions: discrimination -- treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit prejudice -- irrational suspicion or hatred of a (...) (21 years ago, 23-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Tim Robbins "Countering a Wave of Hate"
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| (...) Oh? He is not? I suppose you are smarter than him? Because, as far as I know, Mr. Robbins is a respected person in Holywood precisely because he is a very intelligent and smart person. If you can threat people because of what they say, then (...) (21 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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