Subject:
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Re: Criminal Justice
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 20 Aug 2002 03:34:01 GMT
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Viewed:
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403 times
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Christopher Weeks wrote:
> And actually, reading your pause above shows me a hole in the system. What if
> the victim has no family? Is murdering one person cheaper than another? Off
> hand that sounds icky, but is it actually bad? I guess I think it is!
> Otherwise, we'd have a system that _officially_ values the lives of rich people
> over the lives of the poor.
I'm not uncomfortable with the thought that some people are worth more
than others. If I'm at fault in an accident and total someone's junky
car and you total a brand new Mercedes in a similar situation, isn't it
reasonable that you have to pay a higher restitution? Doing otherwise
makes for perverse results (hmm, no mater what kind of car gets trashed,
I get $100k because all cars should be worth the same, so I'll buy a
junk yard car, and park it on the side of the road next to that tree
with the count of drunk drivers who have hit it... hmm, I'll go around
and pay street bums $100 to name me in their will and collect the $10
million when one of them gets offed [probably for the $100 I just gave
them...]...).
> I'm not claiming that no one could reasonably be called a deadbeat dad. But I
> personally know three men who have been denied full paternal privilege
> inappropriately and who fund the life of leisure of their ex wife. I also know
> more people who have a good and reasonably amicable deal established, but I
> don't know any women who're getting the shaft (by the custody system) in the
> same way that men commonly do. And yes, I acknowledge that my annecdotes
> aren't data either, but just like yours, do establish some level of occurance.
I agree that there are men who get the shaft by the courts, probably
there are even more men than women (I remember an article about a judge
in Massachusetts who ALWAYS gave more to the woman in divorce
settlements, one of the examples was a relatively friendly divorce where
the woman just wanted a fair share, and was given the house, the car,
AND a big alimony).
I think there are more men shirking their duty than women. I also think
that the system by not recognizing the father's rights, encourages more
defaults.
One thing which would really help the system is to figure out how to get
the money directly to the kids. I wonder if alimony should disappear? It
probably should at a minimum be replaced with clauses in the marriage
contract (and of course marriage should become purely a contract issue
as far as the government is concerned, religions remain free to chose
what sorts of such contracts they will bless).
> > I think that's the essence of the dilemma! And how can society
> > distinguish "true" mental trauma from false? Especially when some (many?)
> > people suffer trauma without developing criminal mental illness later in
> > life? Must reflect on this further...
>
> And, how does the societal responsibility/role differ depending on the
> criminality of the mental illness? Do we as a group owe a mentally ill person
> less merely because they are not criminally insane? I suppose I shouldn't even
> be asking this as a pseudo-libertarian, but I guess that's why I'm calling
> myself a socialist-libertarian.
I think if we focus on restitution by humane means, and confinement when
a reasonable risk of future harm or avoidance of restitution exists,
then it doesn't matter so much what was the reason for the mass murder.
The guy who goes around killing people because they're demons needs
confinement just as much as the guy who goes around killing people
because they were in the way of him robbing the bank.
Frank
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Criminal Justice
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| (...) Would you contend that the abrogation of guilt caused by punishment has nothing to do with recidivism or that such effect is nonexistant? It kind of feels like you wanted to pin me to that specific stance so you could play whack-a-mole with (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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