Subject:
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Re: Criminal Justice
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:23:26 GMT
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Viewed:
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359 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > As a point of clarification, are you speculating that recidivism might
> > result from confinement-based punishment because such punishment is separate
> > from actual guilt-consequences of the committed crime?
>
> Yes. But I think it's less of a stretch to imagine that recidivism is caused
> by some unspecified factor(s) of incarceration. In fact, I think it's almost
> certain that some such link exists. So I guess I'm speculating more broadly
> than the specific "because" that you noted, but would include that.
Ah! Well, I'd definitely agree that the average prison environment is
hardly conducive to the creation of productive members of society. Without
naming a specific cause, I'd say that incarceration certainly contributes to
the perpetuation of a criminal mindset.
> In the coursest form, there could exist some kind of a temporary slavery until
> the debt is paid. That (or preferably something more mild/regulated) would
> negate the ability of the convicted to avoid the debt burden in the ways that
> you suggested.
Interesting. I guess the main thing that gives me pause about such a
compensatory system is a case like murder, when no length of slavery can
truly compensate the victim's family. Granted, the execution or lifelong
incarceration doesn't give true compensation either. Yikes, what a topic!
> Do you have stats on "deadbeat dads?" It's kind of a hotbutton topic, but I
> think dads are routinely getting the shaft by the system and I bristle
> somewhat at the characterization. It seems that many people think
> the "deadbeat dad" phenomenon is more prevalent than I think it is. I'd be
> curious to see numbers.
I apologize for that propagandist term and withdraw it. Instead I'll
extend the notion to "those who default on contractually obligated debt." I
don't have any hard numbers, but in my field of employment I see a quite
large number of levies applied to accounts whose owners have defaulted on
payments, and those account owners contest the levies tooth-and-nail.
Admittedly these are anecdotal examples in the grand scheme, but I think
they provide a good indication that some people are willing to avoid
appropriate payment when possible.
> > Gosh gosh gosh, I don't know. How great is society's responsibility to
> > care for the dangerously mentally ill, and to what extent and for how long?
>
> And does it matter if you can track a cause of the mental illness? Does it
> matter if it results from child abuse or from unfortunate brain chemistry?
I think that's the essence of the dilemma! And how can society
distinguish "true" mental trauma from false? Especially when some (many?)
people suffer trauma without developing criminal mental illness later in
life? Must reflect on this further...
> I'd rather see the criminally insane studied humanely and cryonically
> suspended than put down. We could then fix them when that becomes possible.
Interesting and arguably more humane than execution. But I wonder if such
"fixing" could be construed as the "execution" of the criminal and the
creation of a whole new person. Would that be preferable? I suppose that
crimnally insane people who are truly repentant (but who can't stop
themselves) might welcome such an option, but what of those who don't?
Dave!
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Criminal Justice
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| (...) Would you contend that the abrogation of guilt caused by punishment has nothing to do with recidivism or that such effect is nonexistant? It kind of feels like you wanted to pin me to that specific stance so you could play whack-a-mole with (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Criminal Justice
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| (...) Yes. But I think it's less of a stretch to imagine that recidivism is caused by some unspecified factor(s) of incarceration. In fact, I think it's almost certain that some such link exists. So I guess I'm speculating more broadly than the (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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