Subject:
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Re: Criminal Justice
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 19 Aug 2002 00:52:20 GMT
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Viewed:
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284 times
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Christopher Weeks wrote:
> What gives? Do you all feel this too? Is it good or bad? What should happen
> in this specific case, and more importantly in the general case of when a
> criminal doesn't reasonably need to be rehabilitated or confined for the public
> safety.
Well, you've tempted me out of my shell again...
I just came up with some ideas which may explain our issues with
justice, especially in these most difficult cases. While I didn't read
the specific case at hand, from a quick visit to the website, I can
guess at what the case is about.
Clearly one reason we feel the need to lock someone up and throw away
the key, or even take their life, is the desire for a safe world where
no one gets hurt. We feel that if somehow we could remove every "broken"
person from the world, we would have paradise.
But here's another thought:
What if the real reason we have these feelings is that deep down in our
subconscious, we see ourselves? What would we do if we found ourselves
incapable of providing for our family? What do you do if you have a
child, and you can't feed it? I'm picturing situations so far out that
even the most capable of us would still be unable to provide. Do we
starve ourselves to save the child? That certainly seems noble, but what
if that wouldn't be enough, because once we're dead, the child really
won't be able to provide for themselves, and will die anyway? Wouldn't
the overall equation of life have been better served by our abandoning
the child and trying to stay alive ourselves, so that if the resources
available to us are enough to let us survive until the situation
improves, that we can then have a new child?
Now, if we're going to chose our life over the child's, isn't it better
to end the child's life quickly rather than torturing them to death
(refusing them food that we eat ourselves)?
So, assuming we can accept this hypothetical situation, it's very easy
to see how incomplete information could lead someone to this conclusion
about their own situation.
So, we come back to the question of what to do with people who don't do
the right thing. I feel that justice would be best served by
determining the following things:
1. What do we need to do immediately to prevent additional harm?
2. What was the real wrong action?
3. Who is being hurt?
4. What is the level of hurt?
5. What is the likelihood of the person doing the same wrong thing
again?
6. Can we possibly show the persona better way to handle the situation
in the future?
7. How can the people who have been hurt be compensated?
I think that's a complete set of questions which if answered, will show
the path to justice.
Thinking about these questions does tell me that while I strongly oppose
the death penalty, I can still conceive of a set of answers which says
that the death penalty is the best solution. On the other hand, I don't
think that I would find very many people who fit in that category. I
just added question one because I realized that in some situations, that
is the first question which must be answered. It's the question which
produces answers which justify deadly force on the spot without trial.
Note that I do not have "Why was the wrong action taken?" as a question.
If you are asking this, I don't think you've fully answered the
questions yet (especially #2 but also #5 will shed some light on
"why?"). Why may be helpful in healing, but when all the questions are
answered, I think as much of "why?" will come out as is possible.
Of course not all wrong actions are worth a deep analysis. Quick answers
to questions 2-4 will put some cases into a "deal with them quickly and
move on" bucket (such as simple traffic violations - in such cases, the
answer to #5 is researched in depth for a wide population by insurance
companies, the whole experience, even if all that happens is that the
person is momentarily delayed by a traffic stop, may be enough to
satisfy #6, and since there is no direct damage associated with the
incident, #7 is satisfied by the person's insurance rates going up -
note also that the answer to number 2 may quickly yield the action of
the cop escorting the driver and his pregnant wife to the emergency room
[which happens, and should happen]).
The answer to #2 may also tell you that you have the wrong person (for
example the woman who kills her abusive husband), or at least don't have
all the players (the woman who kills her abusive husband still has taken
a wrong action, but so did her husband, and probably a bunch of other
people).
So, what do we do with these baby killers? I really don't think prison
is the right place for them (at least not the high profile cases of the
recent past). I don't think sterilization would be appropriate either (a
reference to current news in Oregon). I am inclined to put these people
under court orders to not have any more children (but the future risk
should be evaluated before removing any surviving children).
I think the action taken should be done to seek justice. Part of justice
is answering the questions so all can understand the situation. Part is
seeking confinement of those who pose too much risk, or who can not be
trusted to engage in the education necessary to help them (and this, and
thinking about the sterilization issue, tells me that enforced
medication is not a solution [though it may be needed to minimize risk,
or create conditions conducive to education], the right answer is to
educate the person so that they will CHOSE medication if that is truly
the best way for them to regain control of their life).
Revenge doesn't really help anything. All that revenge does is bring
about another wrong action.
As I was going through this analysis, I was also thinking of the
Palestinians. At least some (probably most) of them are stuck in the
same "There's no way out." dilemma which we can imagine the mother being
in. On the other hand, I do strongly feel that there are people, in
positions of power, who are cultivating these fears, for their own
personal gain. Interestingly, I think the same can be said of the
Israelis. It can also be said about our own law enforcement situation.
If we truly want to see justice in the world, we should be looking for
these people in power, and exposing them.
Frank
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Criminal Justice
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| (...) Good! (...) It seems like that's part of it but there is a deeper desire for revenge that doesn't have a rational basis. I worry that we use the rational need for safety to mask our desire for retribution. (...) It's interesting that you mixed (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Criminal Justice
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| Hi all, There is a recurring notion, in some debates here and in conversations in real life, about justice that concerns me. It seems that there are many people who think that it is "just" for someone who does something bad to have something bad (...) (22 years ago, 18-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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