 | | Re: Criminal Justice —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | (...) When a child does something antisocial (aka "wrong") many parents/authorities have the first impulse to punish the kid. Current thinking in child development and parenting philosophy says (and I'm pretty sure I agree) that when a punishment is (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) As a point of clarification, are you speculating that recidivism might result from confinement-based punishment because such punishment is separate from actual guilt-consequences of the committed crime? (...) Escaping from what? I think that (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Oops. That should have read "execution of the mentally retarded." Dave! (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Yes. But I think it's less of a stretch to imagine that recidivism is caused by some unspecified factor(s) of incarceration. In fact, I think it's almost certain that some such link exists. So I guess I'm speculating more broadly than the (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Ah! Well, I'd definitely agree that the average prison environment is hardly conducive to the creation of productive members of society. Without naming a specific cause, I'd say that incarceration certainly contributes to the perpetuation of a (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Would you contend that the abrogation of guilt caused by punishment has nothing to do with recidivism or that such effect is nonexistant? It kind of feels like you wanted to pin me to that specific stance so you could play whack-a-mole with (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Actually, I was simply trying to agree and to provide one point of common thinking. Sorry if it came off as a challenge. (...) Another good point! I suppose that, technically, the *life* of the murder victim isn't the sole basis for (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | (...) I'm not uncomfortable with the thought that some people are worth more than others. If I'm at fault in an accident and total someone's junky car and you total a brand new Mercedes in a similar situation, isn't it reasonable that you have to (...) (22 years ago, 20-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | (...) I think you are looking at the idea of equality with a slightly clouded lens... We are equal under the law, and therefore due equal protection and liability under the law. We are NOT actually all equal in reality. The life of a person has (...) (22 years ago, 20-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) lens... I've been thinking about this for quite a while and I think that either I misunderstand your meaning, or you're wrong. The notion of equality under law, I think, is somewhat slippery. Further, it seems some times (this included) that (...) (22 years ago, 2-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | (...) Well, that's a fault of the kind of torts we currently allow. At the same time the destruction of what exists at the time of the loss is what is being protected. It's not that big a leap to assert that someone that has been earning "X" dollars (...) (22 years ago, 2-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Setting aside the loss of income issue (because I'm still not sure and don't have anything insightful to say), what does "loss of society" mean? (...) Let's imagine that a kid is part of a rich family until he's ten (way old enough to have (...) (22 years ago, 3-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | (...) Loss of that person's company; the loss of the relationship with that person. (...) Well, I'm not sure that a child does either -- certainly not all of it. But there could be other claimants, like a spouse. I think earlier in the thread we (...) (22 years ago, 3-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | (...) I am leery of according mere confinement the status of unreasonable or even harsh punishment for basic violent common law crimes (armed theft, assult, rape, murder, etc). The purpose of confinement for such violent offenders, absent mental (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) I'd say that "an individual that is absolutely willing to hurt others in permanent ways to achieve their short term ends" is someone who has a mental illness. But containment with psychiatric help available until the person demonstrates they (...) (22 years ago, 20-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Criminal Justice —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | (...) Gee, that means that many highly placed politicians may be mentally ill! =) -- Hop-Frog (22 years ago, 20-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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