Subject:
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Re: A question of remembrance...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:18:04 GMT
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Viewed:
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622 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> Turkey and Israel are "free to take care of it". However, both have a
> history of ignoring human rights and murdering civilians in the process.
That's the way of blood feuds. Or gang-warfare. Or <your phrase of choice
here>!
Still, a less polemical tone might be more appropriate for someone in Great
Britian. Britain is hardly a country without fault, historically speaking.
If the sun never set on the British empire, believe me -- it's control was
built upon atrocities with a human cost. Don't get me started...
And it's not as though the U.S. is much better, I am not exactly defending
it's record either. I don't think I could stomach that...
And there are shades of violence -- sometimes it has less to do with
"conventional warfare" and more to with politics, information, and
economics. Law is warfare against the poor, when you think about it.
But, here is more my point: no one is innocent, but some of us are guiltier
than others. The point is not the past, or even the present, but rather the
future! What shall we do tomorrow to make the world a better place?
Like I said before, no one wins until everyone drops their weapons. And no
it's not about taking up the fight again with fists instead, Shiri (not that
you don't already know this!). People need to get together on both sides
and talk. We can count grievances on both sides until everyone is blue in
the face, and get nowhere. Until you come to care about your enemy as if
s/he were your neighbor, you will achieve nothing. You must learn to
humanize and care for your enemy, then you can begin to work toward the
common end of peace.
Monsters aren't made in a day, it takes time. Time in which their own
grievances are counted and become incipient hatred. The terrorist of today
was once just someone's son or daughter, father or mother, friend or lover
-- until they lost someone they cared for to the madness that is violence.
We must all of us remember that the face of a terrorist is yet but a human
face deserving of our compassion.
> Hmm. And what about the rocket attacks I see your army perpatrate alsmost
> daily on small towns... are those ones ~ok~? Do they not end in "major >tragedy"?
Boy, you really know how to get up someone's snout when you want to eh, Scott?
I am not sure that I have seen anyone defend violence as such in this
thread. On the other hand, I would never ask anyone to NOT defend
themselves and their loved ones -- I have to think that such an act is
allowable under any rational moral system. You can't save a drowning man
unless you can act from a position of safety, if you take my meaning.
Shiri, like anyone, feels instinctively protective of herself and her own
people. Nothing wrong with that. If Shiri asked me, and she has not, I
would counsel her to proffer the olive branch to her enemies instead of a
gun. To humanize the faces of hatred and wash away with tears the
bloodstains of the far too many.
That would be a good start...
Then again, I am not really sure what her options are...
I'd fight to defend my country, my state, my city, my home -- at the same
time, I would never fight a war on foreign soil. To me that would be
immoral and I wouldn't do it. If Canada attacked the U.S. tomorrow, I would
fight them right back to the border -- and from there they could go in peace.
I guess that leaves open the question of the degree to which Israel is the
home of Jews AND the home of Palestinians. I don't favor either side, I see
blood on everyone's hands. I thought for a while there they were going to
declare two independent states, Israel and Palestine - I mean, if they can't
play well together, let them play apart from each other. Why didn't that
work out? Or can it still? Seems like an excellent solution to me.
Can the world be as sad as it seems...?
-- Richard
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Message has 5 Replies:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) That was in the bad old days... most other countries were doing pretty much the same - or wanted to. But sure, I'm still not proud of it. Anyhow, we have rebranded ourselves as the "UK" :-) (...) I view some laws as protection for the poor or (...) (24 years ago, 27-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) Good thing for most of Europe enough people thought it was moral to fight a war on foreight soil (though I guess in some cases, outside participation was invited). I also don't think we would have the relative peace we have in Europe had we (...) (24 years ago, 27-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes: <snip rebuffing-of-Scott-part> (...) I agree. That is definitely the key here. (...) I *completely* agree. I think I came off really different in my last post; don't get me wrong here. I am all (...) (24 years ago, 28-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) <snip> Man I hate it when you're right about something! A less polemical tone on the part of US and UK (and Israeli and USSR and etc etc. heck, on the part of all of us) speakers would indeed be a good idea. ++Lar (24 years ago, 28-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) Turkey and Israel are "free to take care of it". However, both have a history of ignoring human rights and murdering civilians in the process. (...) Hmm. And what about the rocket attacks I see your army perpatrate alsmost daily on small (...) (24 years ago, 27-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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