Subject:
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Re: A question of remembrance...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:58:46 GMT
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Viewed:
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818 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > Turkey and Israel are "free to take care of it". However, both have a
> > history of ignoring human rights and murdering civilians in the process.
>
> That's the way of blood feuds. Or gang-warfare. Or <your phrase of choice
> here>!
>
> Still, a less polemical tone might be more appropriate for someone in Great
> Britian. Britain is hardly a country without fault, historically speaking.
> If the sun never set on the British empire, believe me -- it's control was
> built upon atrocities with a human cost. Don't get me started...
That was in the bad old days... most other countries were doing pretty much
the same - or wanted to. But sure, I'm still not proud of it. Anyhow, we
have rebranded ourselves as the "UK" :-)
>
> And it's not as though the U.S. is much better, I am not exactly defending
> it's record either. I don't think I could stomach that...
>
> And there are shades of violence -- sometimes it has less to do with
> "conventional warfare" and more to with politics, information, and
> economics. Law is warfare against the poor, when you think about it.
I view some laws as protection for the poor or under-educated.
>
> But, here is more my point: no one is innocent, but some of us are guiltier
> than others. The point is not the past, or even the present, but rather • the
> future! What shall we do tomorrow to make the world a better place?
>
> Like I said before, no one wins until everyone drops their weapons. And no
> it's not about taking up the fight again with fists instead, Shiri (not • that
> you don't already know this!). People need to get together on both sides
> and talk. We can count grievances on both sides until everyone is blue in
> the face, and get nowhere. Until you come to care about your enemy as if
> s/he were your neighbor, you will achieve nothing. You must learn to
> humanize and care for your enemy, then you can begin to work toward the
> common end of peace.
>
> Monsters aren't made in a day, it takes time. Time in which their own
> grievances are counted and become incipient hatred. The terrorist of today
> was once just someone's son or daughter, father or mother, friend or lover
> -- until they lost someone they cared for to the madness that is violence.
> We must all of us remember that the face of a terrorist is yet but a human
> face deserving of our compassion.
>
> > Hmm. And what about the rocket attacks I see your army perpatrate alsmost
> > daily on small towns... are those ones ~ok~? Do they not end in "major
> tragedy"?
>
> Boy, you really know how to get up someone's snout when you want to eh, • Scott?
>
I found what she was saying very ironic.
> I am not sure that I have seen anyone defend violence as such in this
> thread. On the other hand, I would never ask anyone to NOT defend
> themselves and their loved ones -- I have to think that such an act is
> allowable under any rational moral system. You can't save a drowning man
> unless you can act from a position of safety, if you take my meaning.
>
> Shiri, like anyone, feels instinctively protective of herself and her own
> people. Nothing wrong with that. If Shiri asked me, and she has not, I
> would counsel her to proffer the olive branch to her enemies instead of a
> gun. To humanize the faces of hatred and wash away with tears the
> bloodstains of the far too many.
>
> That would be a good start...
A good start would be for her country to adhere to UN relsoutions... or
maybe even respect the rights of others.
>
> Then again, I am not really sure what her options are...
>
> I'd fight to defend my country, my state, my city, my home -- at the same
> time,
For me, it would really depend on what the fight was for.
> I would never fight a war on foreign soil. To me that would be
> immoral and I wouldn't do it.
I think not getting involved can be immoral too. I wound have supported Uk
troops being deployed in Rwanda to stop a few million people getting
murdered.
> If Canada attacked the U.S. tomorrow, I would
> fight them right back to the border -- and from there they could go in • peace.
>
> I guess that leaves open the question of the degree to which Israel is the
> home of Jews AND the home of Palestinians. I don't favor either side, I • see
> blood on everyone's hands. I thought for a while there they were going to
> declare two independent states, Israel and Palestine - I mean, if they • can't
> play well together, let them play apart from each other. Why didn't that
> work out? Or can it still? Seems like an excellent solution to me.
A good start would be for Israel to abide by all UN resolutions. If these
are unworkable, the should be superceded. They should stop building
settlements on land which is not theirs. Afterall, it is like Canada
building towns in the US :-)
Scott A
> Can the world be as sad as it seems...?
>
> -- Richard
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) Heh. It may be sobering to point out that the "brand" of UK was born in 1800, following the forced Act of Union with Ireland. That's when the name becomes valid, and it starts a new era of incredible colonial bloodshed. But I'm not sure all of (...) (24 years ago, 1-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) Great! So now that your country has the benefits of conquest -- wealth and power -- it is possible for it to show the "kinder and gentler" face of colonialism -- the hypocrisy of the congenial tyrant. I'd just like you to know that other (...) (24 years ago, 1-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) That's the way of blood feuds. Or gang-warfare. Or <your phrase of choice here>! Still, a less polemical tone might be more appropriate for someone in Great Britian. Britain is hardly a country without fault, historically speaking. If the sun (...) (24 years ago, 27-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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