Subject:
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Re: A question of remembrance...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:35:41 GMT
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Viewed:
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543 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Selçuk Göre writes:
>
>
> Scott A wrote:
> >
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Selçuk Göre writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott A wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > earth. He has been killing off the marsh Arabs in the south and the Kurds in
> > > > > the north (he gassed their villages in 1989). But there's no justice in making
> > > > > the Iraqis (especially children) suffer and die under these inhumane sanctions.
> > > > > There is no way those poor people can overthrow him. He's like the boogieman.
> > > > > The Kurds tried to right after the Gulf War, as urged by George Bush, but then
> > > > > America backstabbed them and let them get slaughtered.
> > > >
> > > > Ah. But a certain NATO country is no friend to the kurds either.
> > > >
> > > > Scott A
> > >
> > > Kurdish people not equal to PKK just like Irish people not equal to
> > > IRA. I hope this would help. And if the film "In The Name of My Father"
> > > (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0107207) has any truth in it,
> >
> > From imdb:
> >
> > Factual errors: The Guildford 4 & the Maguire 7 were not tried in the same
> > court simultaneously.
> >
> > Factual errors: Guiseppe Conlon & Gerry were never in the same prison.
>
> Sorry, but both of these were not the main idea behind the film, if I
> got it correctly. Besides the film was not the main subject here.
>
> > > it is sometimes
> > > quite difficult to separate one from the other, huh?
> >
> > It must be:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_885000/885270.stm
> >
> > The differnce is that the public in the UK expect even convicted murderers
> > to be treated as humans... not murdered raped or tortured. Sure, the police
> > do not always do it. Sure there have been mistakes. But the public expects
> > it... or at least I do.
>
> So at least you already got the main idea, partially..:-) And believe
> me, public DOES NOT always want this kind of perfect humanity if enough
> encourage and motivation is a given. History is full of this.
You have a government which systematically abuses human rights and as taken
part in the killing of ~6000 civilians in the war you describe. Who voted
for them?
>
> War is slime. And when covered with slime, it is always difficult
> sorting the things out. The Kurdish thing here in south eastern Turkey
> was/is a WAR. Between fully terrorist group PKK and Turkish Armed
> Forces. It is a war that consumed 40.000 lives along its duration of
> fifteen years, from both sides (do not forget to consider both "sides"
> are citizens of Turkish Republic).
>
> So what is the cause of the slime here? Is any illegal/rebel
> organization can rise to power without any motivation and support? Even
> assuming the motivation comes from lower living standards of the whole
> southern part of the Turkey, who are those supporters? Who wanted a
> country to consume its young lives (from both sides) and future of the
> others (could you realize the amount of money that devoted to a war
> 15-year-long? Could you realize the importance of that amount for a
> country like Turkey?)? Who supplied NATO inventory weapons like stinger
> AA missiles to the group? How can they afford such weapons, and other
> more trivial ones, and all the logistics (I'm talking about a full scale
> guerilla army of thousands)? Who has the most profit here?
The IRA has weapons UK, USA and eastern Europe. Bizarrely, some of the
weapons from the USA were sent to NI via regular mail.
>
> AND, do you really know anything that worth knowing, about the Kurdish
> problem here, of its (very recent, less than a hundred years) history?
I know about the Ilisu dam, will it not make 15000 kurds homless?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1026000/1026204.stm
>
> There is not a thing like "good war/honorable war" existing on earth,
> and it never existed. Go after who crated all this hassle, if you really
> prefer to have a point. Trying to nitpick dirtier part of a total dirt
> is just... gabble.
The fact is that until Turkey sorts this out it will never be part of the EU.
Scott A
>
> And I feel that I must remind you, I'm not talking about a subject here
> that I'm watching easily from my TV, sitting in my comfortable and SAFE
> seat. I was partially inside of it (Turkish army based on conscription,
> might be you know) and I'm a person who lives in his "safe" town, which
> is quite familiar with bombs gone off in public places.
>
> Selçuk
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) 6000 civilians? You are sure right? And systematically?..Wow..You enlightened me..:-) Doc knows my country better than me..:-) I know Turkey has the worst kind of scum as a government for decades but only one thing that I'm sure of exists, (...) (23 years ago, 27-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) Sorry, but both of these were not the main idea behind the film, if I got it correctly. Besides the film was not the main subject here. (...) So at least you already got the main idea, partially..:-) And believe me, public DOES NOT always (...) (23 years ago, 26-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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