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(...) The issue that I'm bringing up elsewhere is in faith of perception. Not in the scientific method, per se, but with the data it examines being based on faith-- as for a SPECIFIC post... I dunno... if you've read them all (and the new ones since (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) But have you, personally, conducted these various experiments to prove the existance of Brazil, or are you accepting the testimonial evidence of those that have? If you have not actually verified for yourself that Brazil exists, you take it on (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) Depends on how you want to phrase it: I find given the scale of the universe, it seems mathematically likely that there is extra-terrestrial life. Evidence is suggesting that planets are fairly common. The right mix of time, elements, (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) No no, the point is that it IS taken on faith. Maybe not by YOU, but by some. Let's say something more obscure (someplace you HAVEN'T visited, seen pictures of, etc). I dunno, say Sri Lanka. Really you'd be best to suggest such a place, but (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) No. It *is* taken on faith. (Why are you capitalizing it?) Until and unless I buy a plane ticket, and go there and do the experiment (visiting Brazil), I am taking it on faith that other people's experiences of Brazil, however well or poorly (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Science is not a religion, and religion is not a science.
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(...) Exactly! The question arising forthwith, though, is whether we should go about saying what reality is. Should we say 'God does not exist.'? No. We should say 'God does not exist in MY reality.' The distinction should be made. And as I imply (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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I forgot a sentence in here... (...) However, I don't believe in UFOs in the classic sense. I don't think a species advanced enough to have intersystem travel would even waste their time with us, unless it was a paleontological study(on the level of (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) This is taken on Faith. I believe in extra-terrestrial life. Believing that we are on the only life-bearing planet in the entire universe is pretty arrogant, I think. (...) Ah, but this is NOT taken on Faith - this can be easily proved - (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) If he runs on about evolution being bankrupt without addressing the other points, I think we have an answer through a non-answer. If he simply drops the subject, we probably have an answer, but can't be sure of it. Anyway, a non-answer can be (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) I think they're more-or-less the same. It doesn't matter if you can verify something through the scientific method if you don't actually verify it. You are assuming that it is so - in other words, taking it on faith. Hundreds of thousands of (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) I'm not sure exactly if you're asking this as an either/or question or not... Really the answer is yes to both. If someone tells you the door is locked, what's the first thing you do? Try to open the door. You don't take it on faith. But if (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Science is not a religion, and religion is not a science.
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(...) This, too, is Postmodernism, and it depends on a solipsistic "me first" sort of reality. Certainly the caveman is dead, and that should be enough for him, but the agent of his death is separate from his perception of it. It is a handgun (or (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) But do you really experience life in this fashion? Either doubting everything that you haven't perceived personally, or equating the acceptance of another's testimony with the kind of Faith necessary to believe in a supreme being? The flaw in (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Science is not a religion, and religion is not a science.
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(...) I think that while I agree with that, I'll point out the clarification I'd make (more Ponty, actually, IIRC). Reality is, in *whole* or in *part*, that which is unignorable-- I.E. that which doesn't go away without you believing in it, as you (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) Exactly. It MAY mean he can't back up his claims. But he might also be able to. Can't say one way or the other... As science would be so keen to point out, lack of evidence does not prove a theory :) (...) Check out the other sub-thread on (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) Ummm, actually looking back on the string, Steve was making the assumption that "Darwinists" are atheists by definition. They aren't - evolution doesn't address God. Now, a Darwinist can be an atheist, but they also may not be, which is what (...) (24 years ago, 18-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) I think that was HIS point too - reread what he typed ;-) -- | Tom Stangl, Technical Support Netscape Communications Corp | Please do not associate my personal views with my employer (24 years ago, 18-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) This is one of the other basic problems I see with Christianity. The Bible was written by MEN. Poorly written in many cases. No one can adequately explain to me WHY God seemed to be so chatty with his people 2K years ago, then promptly zipped (...) (24 years ago, 18-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Science is not a religion, and religion is not a science.
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(...) I'll see your Ponty and raise you some PK Dick; reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. Okay, that's not a conclusive answer, but it entertains me. Once again I think the essence in our difference lies in how we (...) (24 years ago, 18-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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(...) No answer can be an answer when one side finds itself overmatched - slinking away quietly is an answer (I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case here). (...) It may mean he can't back up his claims. That doesn't mean others might not (...) (24 years ago, 18-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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