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(...) (URL) This> is interesting. "The Saturn 5 was also not cheap to operate... the launch cost of a single Saturn 5 at $431 million in 1967, or over $2.4 billion a launch in 2004 dollars... ...It’s not inconceivable that a new heavy-lift vehicle (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Not from what I understand. Rutan did start work before the X-Prize became fully-funded at $10 million, but he was inspired to get started by the X-Prize itself. He is reported to have started his program in 2001, but the X-Prize was founded (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Saturn V rockets would have, admittedly, had a lower cost per payload pound, but who would have been able to take advantage of that capacity besides the government? Commercial enterprise needs greater cost efficiency, not greater capacity. (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Is that for development or launch? (...) NASA is also a governmental agency, and therefore bound by red tape. In other words, they have to spend money to spend money. The government has been cited as spending $300 on a hammer, but the hammer (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) S'funny...I've often thought much the same thing about you. BTW, did you ever track down your answer on using the (R) symbol when typing "The LEGO Company"? (...) Lessee, from what I've read, the OCST was formed as part of a bipartisan effort (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Costs money to store - does Ford still have the tooling for the Model T? And let me express at least some skepticism regarding the alleged motivation you attribute to NASA. -->Bruce<-- (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Probably. But how many major aerospace endeavors come off exactly like they sound on paper? Hindsight is always 20/20. I certainly wouldn't call the shuttle program a huge mistake. Sure, it didn't deliver the promised goods, but I believe the (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) True. But it's difficult if not impossible to divorce NASA and Congress. NASA does what Congress tells it to do. (...) You're sort of trying to put words in my mouth here and I have to correct you, I'm afraid... No, the point is why (in 1969) (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Merely a stepping stone. (...) Well, knock me over with a feather. Somebody inside NASA is apparently considering whether NASA should give prizes too. Maybe nothing will come of it, maybe it was a misquote, who knows. But maybe??? (URL) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) Did it? Wasn't it Congress who wasn't too keen on buying more Saturns and cut the remaining moon missions and all the cool future Apollo applications projects that NASA DID want. The shuttle was then sold as a way to get more bang-for-the-buck (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Inside Bush's secret Afghan gulag
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(URL) Inside Bush's secret Afghan gulag>: "They were kicking me and beating me and shouting like animals at me... Then they asked me which animals - they made the noise of goats, sheep, dogs, cows - I had had sexual activities with. They laughed at (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) This whole tooling issue reminds me about the destruction of the early Lego moulds. (...) If they had kept this stuff, I expect their critics would have harangued them for wasting tax payer’s money maintaining and storing obsolete equipment. (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) (I should have said 'and infrastructure') (...) Nope. But if you get rid of one element then it becomes easier to justify getting rid of the rest. The tooling was just the last thing to go in a whole sorry parade of wanton waste and (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well of course they did. Is there any reason to spend money to preserve and maintain the tooling viability for a rocket that can no longer be launched? All the existing Saturn launch infrastructure was modified for shuttle use. The launch (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?)
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(...) Sewerage systems tend to be monopolies. The only way to ensure treatment and conveyance standards are met is to regulate performance... the "market" is poor at protecting our environment. (...) You are cherry picking. I'm sure IBM and BATF (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?)
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(...) Who makes sure of that; you or the government? Who tests WWTW discharges; you or the government? I assume your local sewerage operator runs a monopoly? Scott A (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I heard a statistic indicating that the amount of energy needed to go into low orbit is about 70X the energy needed for this touching-the-face-of-God launch, so there are many difficulties to overcome, perhaps more daunting than the obstacles (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?)
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(...) Disagree, see below. (...) I'd agree with that. Properly construed, government is a tool to protect rights. Improperly constructed, government is a master that takes them away. (...) Two points. 1, Perhaps there's a bit of cause and effect (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) All of the Saturn tooling is no more. NASA admitted they did that on purpose to "focus efforts on the shuttle". Arguably the Saturns would have been really great Big Dumb Boosters if heavy lift was something that NASA was really interested in. (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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