 | | A question for my Canadian pals
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This will FUT ot.debate, but I wanted to start the question here. I'm in a discussion with a person whom I shall term, charitably, a knucklehead. Many of his views are ridiculous, and I can demonstrate their folly with citations and argument fairly (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.loc.ca)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Moc! Moc! Moc!! Bottom line is that people don't have to wait 'months' for an MRI. The naysayers always dredge up the worst case scenarios. Personal friends who have had to get an MRI have had few days, and had to wait a week once to get an (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) I'm not sure our health care system is communist but its free*. A long wait for an MRI is not uncommon. This is due to the lack of facilities. Several private clinics have opened where you can have one done but you have to pay big bucks. (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) That's kind of how the knucklehead had characterized it. In my view, it's a question of most-widespread benefit. If 90% of the population has access to good health care, then that's great, even if access to certain procedures is limited. On (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) It would depend on which procedures, right? This columnist is no doubt biased and has chosen a nice sounding factoid from a friendly source: (URL) Fraser Institute points out that patients in that country (which is still held up as a model for (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Sure, but today my access to certain procedures is limited by my income and my insurance, so I don't know that it's any better in practice. (...) Well, then we're back to the brain surgeon vs. hole-digger, aren't we? (...) Yeah, I'm not sure (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) "getting help"? Do you mean having someone other than yourself pay for things that are routine(1)? Isn't that just rent seeking because you don't want to pay and think you can stick someone else with it? What are we really talking about here? (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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Yes, it is true that there are waits for non-critical exams and procedures. However, if it is a more serious case, the wait is usually less than a week. I have a neighbour that injured his knee back at the end of June. Several weeks of physiotherapy (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) At what point do you put your libertarian ideals aside? I mean you do pay taxes, and those taxes are used for infrastructure and for protection. Some of your tax money goes to roads, most of which you will never use, but that's okay, 'cause (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) I'd say our system is more "socalist" than "communist." Oddly enough, I had an MRI last night (I hurt my arm playing tennis, but an insane specialist wants to make sure I didn't have a stroke. What!?!?). I had one last week, too and I have (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Maybe the nature of "routine things" is the issue. Is a small but stitch-worthy laceration routine? How about a broken leg? Anyway, we *all* require that someone else pay for things that we consider routine, present company included. Why (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) What follows is all plowed ground... The above presents a false dichotomy in my view. It suggests that either those that are unlucky suffer, or else government has to transfer income (fundamentally, at the point of a gun, since taxation is not (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) How so? Can you elaborate? What routine things do I expect others to pay for on my behalf? I buy my own stuff. (...) Or the ability of his insurance to pay? (...) You wouldn't hold that person responsible for those costs to the maximum extent (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Sure! Here's one example, but there are many: The computer you're using is descended from publicly funded technology for which you have not paid but from which you are reaping the benefit; this is income redistribution that favors you. The (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) I could argue the point that in fact I (and my parents) paid more into the system than we have benefited from it, and I could do so for every example you cite, I think, if I chose to do so. (as a sketch, for the first one, the computer's (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) But underlying technology is only one aspect. If any of the designers (at MS, Intel, or wherever) went to a public school or received a government grant for college or for subsequent research, then you are benefitting from public money. I (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Ok, here's a question on this one. If we truly believe that society owes everyone healthcare, do we include global society? Do we owe the billions of people in India and China the same standard of healthcare that is being demanded for (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Have you thought through to the logical conclusion of the path you're following? The logical conclusion is that there should be no private money at all. But then that raises an interesting question: Who decides what is reasonable to spend (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Part of the problem might be in saying that an uncommon procedure is necessarily less accessible to you. In the US health insurance system, expensive procedures usually come with expensive deductables, so while the line in front of you may be (...) (20 years ago, 6-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Only insofar as THEY derived a benefit... if what they paid in taxes covered the education services they received, then no... in fact one could argue that I ought to get a credit in my accounting if what they paid was more. But this could (...) (20 years ago, 7-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Might the logical conclusion instead be that there should be no money at all, without niggling about public vs. private? I don't suggest that I have a fully fleshed-out alternative to offer, but it seems clear that the consensual hallucination (...) (20 years ago, 7-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Well, for millennia we've lived under a system that allocates resources to the economically or militarily powerful, so naturally there's a huge inequity re: who "owns" the resources. If we can fix that inequity, then we can address the others. (...) (20 years ago, 7-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) Dave, I can give you another data point about MRIs, but everyone else has pretty much covered it that if you need it immediately, you will get it, otherwise, you'll have a long wait. I was getting something checked out and the neurologist (...) (20 years ago, 8-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A question for my Canadian pals
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(...) It's an interesting point you make about owing healthcare to the world, especially right now with the shortage of the flu virus vaccinations happening. Ontario, where I live, used to provide free flu virus shots to anyone that walked into a (...) (20 years ago, 16-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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