Subject:
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Re: surrender, you're surrounded!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.color, lugnet.dear-lego
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Date:
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Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:10:03 GMT
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Viewed:
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4121 times
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In lugnet.color, Burkhard Schloemer wrote:
> Hello David! There can be no color debate thread without you, right? ;)
>
> In lugnet.color, David Koudys wrote:
>
> > Here is where I have the issue--to *you* it's the worst decision the company
> > ever made
>
> OF COURSE it is to ME. Who do you think did type this? My CAT??
The issue wasn't explicitly stated as such. The issue was explicitly stated, in
the original post, as coming from the AFOL community, not just you.
>
> > .... and those that don't think as such are somehow
> > 'kissing up' to TLC.
>
> In fact I'm afraid there is not much thinking at all involved with those posts.
> Different interests sometimes, maybe. However, remember that's just my opinion
> ...
ANd you should, indeed, state your opinion, but make it abundantly clear that it
is your opinion.
>
> > You cannot state emphatically, "This is the worst decision ever made"
>
> You'd like to bet?
>
> Watch me:
> THIS IS THE WORST DECISION STUPID WHITE MEN OF TLG HAVE EVER MADE!
>
> Well?
Touche
> > I know really great builders that don't really care about the colour change
>
> I don't know any. But let's come back to this in a moment, ok?
>
>
I happen to know many--people who replied to this very thread and stated that
they didn't agree with it--or did you miss those posts?
> > What makes your "dedicated AFOL's who think that the
> > colour change is the worst thing" superior to my "dedicated AFOL's who are
> > ambivalent to the colour change"?
>
> Oh good, that one is easy: "dedicated AFOL's who are ambivalent to the colour
> change" is a contradiction in terms. (just me again ...)
No it isn't. I consider myself a dedicated AFOL. I consider all the folks in
rtlToronto dedicated AFOL's (rtl being one of the most active AFOL groups in the
woprld--running what will be in Feb the 18th robot competition, 5 train shows,
and various other events for the last number of years, and having monthly
dinners open to everyone to discuss our chosen hobby.
So again, you belittle those that don't agree with your stance that the colour
issue is a 'big deal' by stating that they're not 'dedicated AFOL's'. Or is
this a misinterpretation of what you just stated?
> > how do you think that this animosity is actually "improving
> > the situation"
>
> Animosity? I was referring to the blay-situation from a builder's point of view
> - a point of view you're apparently not sharing. You seem to get me all wrong
> deliberately.
Am I not a builder? I think I've built a few things over the years. But I
guess I'm still not entitled to an opinion that's contrary to yours, or mine is
'less relevant'. Eh.
> > My belief is that you're causing consternation with TLC in
> > general--you're alienating the very people who would do, and have actually have
> > done, good work for the AFOL community. If I were an executive at TLC, I would
> > have 'turned a blind eye' to the AFOL community due to the apparent childish
> > behaviour that they display when TLC makes business decisions.
>
> You already made your point clear, several times in fact. "Be a nice tame AFOL,
> and you shall be rewarded - or not. Wouldn't really matter because we are an
> ambivalent group of happy folks either way".
Again, your interpretation is flawed. I never said to be a 'tame AFOL'. I've
stated numerous times that one should voice one's opinion, but do it in a
respectful manner. The original letter as presented in this post, as more
people than myself pointed out, was not respectful.
> And *I* am still not convinced that a crowd of cheerleading AFOLs will do us
> (ok, ME) any good, as far as products are concerned I could actually buy. Try
> harder, please.
Ask anyone--I'm not a 'cheerleading AFOL' What I am is supportive of persons
who, in my opinion, deserve my support. Take the organizers of rtl--they get my
support because they've earned it. Jake gets my support 'cause he has as well.
I think I'm one of the few people in the world who has actually had a run-in
with the legal department of TLC. So where does thatget your 'kissing up to
TLC'?
>
>
> > I'm not asking anyone to not voice an opinion. But look at your post right
> > here--it's presumtuous (speaking for a large group of supposed 'great builders
> > so we *must* listen to them!)
>
> That's right! In this case I happen to KNOW a large number of great guys behind
> me you should indeed listen to. Some of them are skilled builders, some own
> excellent Bricklink shops, others are active in other ways. You'll find their
> names on the petition.
And you'll find many people who stated that this letter didn't speak for them,
and they have brickshops and are skilled builders. So where does that get us?
> Where's the list of your supporters, anyway?
Did you read this thread? It's not just me stating that this issue should be a
little more even tempered...
>
> > it's stand-offish "I don't like what you say so
> > you just shouldn't talk!"
>
> You assume too much. A stand-off? Hear hear. That's like General Custer telling
Stand-offish is not Stand Off--two completely different things. Must be an
english thing.
> the Indians "surrender, you're surrounded!". Well, this way at least some
> Indians would have died from laughing too hard.
>
> > Yes it does--it concerns me and my friends who, in my opinion, are 'great
> > designers' as well. Myself, as well as they, don't mind the new colours.
> > -3 time 1st place winner of rtlToronto LEGO Mindstorms competitions (does that
> > put me in a cetegory of 'great builder'?
>
> Did I get you right you're mostly in designing Mindstorms robots? Yes?
> Apparently you're even good at it. Well, that would explain alot. I would gladly
> listen to your opinion if, say, LEGO did change some vital part of the
> Mindstorms system, making new stuff incompatible to your existing collection. I
> really wonder what you would say?
Did you check out my LEGO page?
http://sparky.i989.net/lego.htm
or my LEGO Train page?
http://sparky.i989.net/ltrain.htm
Hardly just Mindstorms...
>
> But it's true, as a Mindstorms designer you couldn't care less about changes of
> SYSTEM colors. I see your point. But this is also why I think the color debate
> isn't exactly your battlefield. Of course no one can keep you from having and
> (help us God) stating your opinion over and over again. But to ME your opinion
> (as a Mindstorms head) carries less weight than the opinion of some (no, SOME)
> particular other people. That's the natural way with opinions, they DO come with
> different weights. Or would YOU take your haircutter's health advice serious?
> No, of course not - you would ask your doctor.
>
> I wonder what makes you fight so hard against what I call "dedicated AFOLs" and
> their valid concerns (me again ...)? Well, in your position, and if TLG would
> happen to support my local Mindstorms events, I would probably be very concerned
> about pesky complainers pissing off our valuably LEGO contacts, too!
>
> See? It's not a matter of different points of view. It is a matter of different
> (and very material) interests!
Again, I have no issue having different 'weights' for differing opinions. I
would listen to my automechanic about my car more than, say, my bank teller.
That said, since we're all AFOL's here, how do you distinguish whos opinion is
more important than someone elses? How? We're all fans of the brick, and,
since we're here, it's apparent that we all have an interest in it, to varying
degrees. Do I need to build a 12 foot spaceship for you to hold my opinion
higher? If I had the entire castle collection, would you then be 'on my side'
on this colour issue?
Probably not. So again, where does 'my unit is bigger than your unit' get us?
> yours,
>
> "Primus" Burkhard, humble LEGO builder
> Brick Commander (LEGO & BattleTech)
> Official BattleTech & Mechwarrior Fan-Site
> http://www.BrickCommander.com
Dave K
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | surrender, you're surrounded!
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| Hello David! There can be no color debate thread without you, right? ;) (...) OF COURSE it is to ME. Who do you think did type this? My CAT?? (...) In fact I'm afraid there is not much thinking at all involved with those posts. Different interests (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jan-05, to lugnet.color, lugnet.dear-lego) !
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