Subject:
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Re: MOC: German WWII halftrack and armoured car
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.build.military
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Date:
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Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:24:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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1330 times
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In lugnet.build.military, Craig Stevens writes:
> The intention of my original email was to answer Henry Henkleman's comments
> that TLC should produce military based sets. He seemed to miss the point
> that many parents do not like buying war related toys for their young
> children. I think Star Wars and WW1 planes (And yes, I do know about WW1
> thank you) are about as far as they will go. We are not about to see tanks,
> trench playsets and barbed wire. TLC are NOT producing military sets in the
> same style as their
> competitors (I'd mention the company names, but I'd have to spit on the carpet).
Yes, but first of all that was a public post (not a private
email), and second you made a value judgement about adults who
*are* interested in the military and show this with LEGO
in your words. Just as you did in this post. I responded
to it because the implication was very clear; you expressed
derision for those who did not agree with TLC's policy or
who produce after-market military kits/MOCs. That is your
perogative, of course, but expect to be challenged on it.
By the way, your original point is a good one; it is indeed
true that many people prefer not to have military-themed
items in their children's play repertoire (though the jury
is still out on its effects upon children). And that's
fine. But we parted ways when you suggested that AFOLs
ought also hew to that.
> In the same vein, there have been countless books, films and television
> programmes aimed at young children, based on sci-fi, pirates and knights.
> There have even been family films and programmes based on WW1 flyers. At no
> point has the nitty gritty of the ground conflict come into the picture.
> You guys may have missed the point, but you don't get titles like "Peter the
> Panzer" next to "Captain Pugwash." There is a distinct difference.
It's one of willful ignorance on the part of the wider historical
mind of Europe and North America. The reason why First World
War flyers' exploits were so very remarkable was *precisely*
because of the carnage going on in the trenches--it gave people
hope that somewhere, somehow, the romantic fantasies of the
wars of Empire and "chivalry" might still exist in an era of
total war. (The same holds true with people's fascination with
Rommel and the Afrika Korps.) The difference is where one
considers it prudent to erect a barrier between observance and
omission.
> I do not know if military models are "crowd pleasers." I doubt if TLC
> appreciates seeing them. I am curious to know if such themes are present at
> Lego shows where TLC has lent it's support. I did not see a single military
> based model at Lego World last year. I'm in the business of running Lego
> shows myself, so I'd like to know.
My personal experience is that TLC folks appreciate the tech-
nical merit of *all* models. And as someone who's done very
well with large military models at each of the three BrickFests
to date, I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say military
MOCs most certainly *are* crowd-pleasers in AFOL venues (which
is a major difference from Lego World, as has been pointed out;
LW attracts lots of young children and non-fans). But I see
no real difference between creating a 20th-century warship and a
17th-century ship of the line morally, even though TLC might.
TLC is of course made up of people; the "policy" was OKK's
(and is now KKK's)--though the lines have been eroding.
> If AFOLs must build military based MOCs, at least show some real skill and
> construct a working technic model - not have minifigs rolling around in
> tanks and totting machine guns. I have seen bombed out buildings, suicide
> bombers and the like on Brickshelf. Elsewhere some guy has made a German
> extermination camp from Lego.
Suicide bombers? Where? And as for the death camp, that's
not an AFOL's creation. That's an independent artist's item,
and it falls into a category all its own both in its intent,
its creation, and its appeal. The bombed-out building was a
piece of scenery for a model, but it might as easily have
been a scene for a steam-shovel. Why can't creating a careful
and fidelit scale model--such as Shaun's or Carl's tanks or
U-Boats--be recognized for its own sake? I'd hate to hear
what you think of BrikWars.
> Is this "harmless"? We are all adults, right?
> Where are you lot going to draw the line? Is there going to be some nice
> battle scenes on Brickshelf, with dead bodies strewn eveywhere? Their happy
> smiling faces would no doubt add to the grizzly humor. Would you display
> that at a Lego show to please the crowd?
You know better than that. That's a totally bankrupt argument.
The only difference between your acceptance of TLC's war-toys
and the models created by AFOLs (remember that A there) is
*where you choose to put your blinders.* You might as well ask
if the Castle people are going to show plague scenes or any
small villages being pillaged and villagers put to the sword
(which wasn't all that uncommon back in those hoary days).
"Yet you can appreciate Castle creations? That's hypocrisy!"
We choose to put our blinders between the machines and the
carnage. It's no less impermeable a boundary, MOC-wise, to us
than yours is to you. You don't agree, fine; but to characterize
us (the military-builder cadre) as somehow morally flawed or
ignorant and naive for it is really very unfair.
By the way, "grizzly" is a bear; the word you're looking for
is spelled "grisly." Sorry; homophones are a pet peeve of mine.
> While TLC has the noble (If financially painful) stance of not producing
> military sets, I'll lend my support. If others do not want to respect that
> policy and continue to construct military based models, to use an old phrase
> "it isn't clever and it isn't funny."
I'm really not sure what you're imputing with that last line;
nobody here is trying to be clever or funny. In fact, TLC
has no policy on what the consumer should or shouldn't build;
so building military models is not disrespecting their policy
of not themselves producing "modern war toys".
The goal is to reproduce the machines or the scenery, not to
glorify war. When are people going to realize there's a difference
between recognizing and even having an interest in history and
glorifying it? Or, for that matter, between understanding the
evils of war and justifying it? Please feel free to vote with
your MOC votes at shows, or with your dollars at the till, but
moralizing in .build.military is, volgens mij, about as effec-
tive as shining a flashlight at the sun. All it leaves you with
is drained batteries. ;)
best
LFB
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: MOC: German WWII halftrack and armoured car
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| (...) I did indeed expect to be challenged and in your response, you have given me very good run for my money. For that I salute you. For the record, I don't deride people who create military MOCs (That's a bit strong) it's that I don't understand (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jan-03, to lugnet.build.military)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: MOC: German WWII halftrack and armoured car
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| The intention of my original email was to answer Henry Henkleman's comments that TLC should produce military based sets. He seemed to miss the point that many parents do not like buying war related toys for their young children. I think Star Wars (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jan-03, to lugnet.build.military)
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