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To my knowledge all we’ve seen is the EMP used in the first movie. There was
also the laser thing that Tank used on Cypher, but I don’t know if that sort of
thing could be mounted on the exterior of the ship.
I don’t own the first movie, so I might be missing something.
So, aside from the EMP device, what sort of weapons do you think Zion would put
on a hovership? Like maybe a smaller, more maneuverable, meaner hovership. >:D
All responses welcome!
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In lugnet.space, Jon Palmer wrote:
| |
To my knowledge all we’ve seen is the EMP used in the first movie. There was
also the laser thing that Tank used on Cypher, but I don’t know if that sort
of thing could be mounted on the exterior of the ship.
I don’t own the first movie, so I might be missing something.
So, aside from the EMP device, what sort of weapons do you think Zion would
put on a hovership? Like maybe a smaller, more maneuverable, meaner
hovership. >:D
All responses welcome!
|
The Animatrix is a good resource. The first
Animatrix film, “Flight of the Osiris,” has the hovership Osiris combatting
Sentinels. They used machine gun turrets, similar to the laser turrets that Han
& Luke use to shoot down TIE Fighters in the Star Wars Millenium Falcon.
The last Animatrix film, “Matriculated,” shows how the freed humans try to
capture and convert the machines. So a hovership could possibly have deployable
bots for combat. Depends on the ethics of the captain.
My imagination suggests that the base hovership is designed for reconaissance
and recovery missions, and thus is lightly armed to increase stealth and speed.
In the battle for Zion, though, I assume that the hoverships have been outfitted
with additional armanents, along with the mecha suits (an unarmored mecha suit
is seen when the Nebucaneezer arrives in Zion in Matrix Reloaded). Based on
these assumptions, I suspect that the weaponry is modular.
If you’re a fan of The Matrix, you should rent or buy Animatrix anyway, as it
offers more insight into the world of the machines. Two of the Animatrix films
are directly referenced in Matrix Reloaded, so it adds to the back story. Four
of the short films are available free online, but all nine of them are worth
watching. The two I’ve referenced here are only available on the DVD. (“Flight
of the Osiris” was also shown before the movie “Dreamcatchers”).
Hope this helps with your inspiration: I look forward to seeing the hovership
(I assume this is why you asked!)
John Riley
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In lugnet.space, John Riley wrote:
| |
The Animatrix is a good resource. The first
Animatrix film, “Flight of the Osiris,” has the hovership Osiris combatting
Sentinels. They used machine gun turrets, similar to the laser turrets that
Han & Luke use to shoot down TIE Fighters in the Star Wars Millenium Falcon.
|
I actually totally forgot about seeing this. After seeing Dreamcatcher I’ve been
trying to forget about it ever since. Maybe my brain accidentally lumped
“Osiris” in with it. This is perfect. Thank you!
| |
The last Animatrix film, “Matriculated,” shows how the freed humans try to
capture and convert the machines. So a hovership could possibly have
deployable bots for combat. Depends on the ethics of the captain.
|
And I’ve seen this one as well. Peter Chung at some of his finest. Hmmm, ok now
I want to make a bot like the one they convert.
| |
My imagination suggests that the base hovership is designed for reconaissance
and recovery missions, and thus is lightly armed to increase stealth and
speed. In the battle for Zion, though, I assume that the hoverships have been
outfitted with additional armanents, along with the mecha suits (an unarmored
mecha suit is seen when the Nebucaneezer arrives in Zion in Matrix Reloaded).
Based on these assumptions, I suspect that the weaponry is modular.
|
Yeah I bet the ships in that battle were loaded with weapons. And speaking of
that mecha, did you see the shot of the guy in it in the Revolutions teaser?
It’s a quick shot but you can definitely tell it’s being used in a battle.
| |
If you’re a fan of The Matrix, you should rent or buy Animatrix anyway, as it
offers more insight into the world of the machines. Two of the Animatrix
films are directly referenced in Matrix Reloaded, so it adds to the back
story. Four of the short films are available free online, but all nine of
them are worth watching. The two I’ve referenced here are only available on
the DVD. (“Flight of the Osiris” was also shown before the movie
“Dreamcatchers”).
|
Yeah I’ve been meaning to buy it. My personal favorite is Koji Morimoto’s
“Beyond”. Brilliant.
| |
Hope this helps with your inspiration: I look forward to seeing the
hovership (I assume this is why you asked!)
|
Oh definitely. I can’t believe I forgot about the Osiris. Machine guns baby,
machine guns.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
WARNING: I forgot to put a spoiler warning for those of you who have not seen
Animatrix or Reloaded yet.
In lugnet.space, Jon Palmer wrote:
| |
In lugnet.space, John Riley wrote:
| |
The Animatrix is a good resource. The first
Animatrix film, “Flight of the Osiris,” has the hovership Osiris combatting
Sentinels. They used machine gun turrets, similar to the laser turrets that
Han & Luke use to shoot down TIE Fighters in the Star Wars Millenium Falcon.
|
I actually totally forgot about seeing this. After seeing Dreamcatcher I’ve
been trying to forget about it ever since. Maybe my brain accidentally
lumped “Osiris” in with it. This is perfect. Thank you!
|
No problem. “Osiris” is pretty much just a back story for “Reloaded.” A lot of
people felt it was just a chance for “Square” to show off their CGI (which is
impressive). Probably why you forgot it: it doesn’t make you go “whoa” or
“huh.”
| |
| |
The last Animatrix film, “Matriculated,” shows how the freed humans try to
capture and convert the machines. So a hovership could possibly have
deployable bots for combat. Depends on the ethics of the captain.
|
And I’ve seen this one as well. Peter Chung at some of his finest. Hmmm, ok
now I want to make a bot like the one they convert.
|
I agree, I really like this one. This is the deepest one, IMO. Ethics &
technology, discussion of what is real, etc. Huge “whoa” factor. I’m glad this
one was at the end: you get to think about the implications during the credits.
After reading some of the other replies, I’ll have to say that converted bots
are probably used more for reconassiance missions or sniping missions. These
missions should have a lower chance for the converted bots to be retaken, and if
something goes awry in the bots, only a small force is lost, not Zion. I
imagine that the generals of Zion aren’t willing to risk their futures on
converted bots until proven reliable in the field.
If you make a bot like the one in “Matriculated,” are you going to make it
minifig scale? They don’t appear much bigger than a human. I think I have an
idea already on how to do it at that scale, I’ll have to give it a shot tonight.
| |
| |
My imagination suggests that the base hovership is designed for
reconaissance and recovery missions, and thus is lightly armed to increase
stealth and speed. In the battle for Zion, though, I assume that the
hoverships have been outfitted with additional armanents, along with the
mecha suits (an unarmored mecha suit is seen when the Nebucaneezer arrives
in Zion in Matrix Reloaded). Based on these assumptions, I suspect that the
weaponry is modular.
|
Yeah I bet the ships in that battle were loaded with weapons. And speaking of
that mecha, did you see the shot of the guy in it in the Revolutions teaser?
It’s a quick shot but you can definitely tell it’s being used in a battle.
|
I was still trying to figure out the whole Architect conversation, and Neo’s
strange ability in the “real” world. These two events lead me to believe (and
many others) that there is another layer to the Matrix (Agent Smith, in the
first movie, stated that humans rejected the first Matrix. Some humans are also
going to reject the second, current, Matrix, so it’s possible a third Matrix was
made to catch the rejects so “crops” won’t be lost). I paid little attention to
the teaser while contemplating these thoughts (which is the real fun of the
Matrix movies).
| |
| |
If you’re a fan of The Matrix, you should rent or buy Animatrix anyway, as
it offers more insight into the world of the machines.
|
Yeah I’ve been meaning to buy it. My personal favorite is Koji Morimoto’s
“Beyond”. Brilliant.
|
“Beyond” was, IMO, the most beautiful of the shorts. I love the shot with her
standing in the doorway to the building, and it’s raining inside. The colors
are fantastic. “Program” is my other favorite; it’s vividly colored, but still
rather dark film about betrayal, trust, deception.
| |
| |
Hope this helps with your inspiration: I look forward to seeing the
hovership (I assume this is why you asked!)
|
Oh definitely. I can’t believe I forgot about the Osiris. Machine guns baby,
machine guns.
|
Looking forward to it. I’ll have to try some of the bots the next time I rent
“Animatrix.” Good luck!
John
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In lugnet.space, John Riley wrote:
| |
No problem. “Osiris” is pretty much just a back story for “Reloaded.” A lot
of people felt it was just a chance for “Square” to show off their CGI (which
is impressive). Probably why you forgot it: it doesn’t make you go “whoa”
or “huh.”
|
I actually found myself being very invested in the ultimate fate of the Osiris
crew, and I’m undecided as to whether I liked Osiris or the 2R two-parter best.
What I do know for sure is that I consider the four Wachowski pieces to be much
better and more relevent to the Matrix series than the five other pieces. I
totally disliked Program, which felt like someone used a ten-foot crowbar to
forcibly pry a mediocre traditional anime story into a Matrix label. I liked
the story of World Record, but I can’t stand the animation style. Beyond was
interesting, and gets you really thinking, but ultimately it left me with a
somewhat empty feeling. I found Matriculated to be philosophically more
interesting, but the visuals weren’t very appealing to me. Detective Story was
the only indie short that I really enjoyed completely.
| |
After reading some of the other replies, I’ll have to say that converted bots
are probably used more for reconassiance missions or sniping missions.
|
Who says they would have had a chance to do anything with their convert-o-bot?
Technically, they didn’t even gain control of it. They just infected it with a
conscience, and I’d guess it’s working from the inside. I also kinda got the
impression that this isn’t the sort of thing that they’ve really done before.
| |
I imagine that the generals of Zion aren’t willing to risk their futures on
converted bots until proven reliable in the field.
|
Certainly not. They don’t even invest much trust in the crews of their own
ships. Note that of the eight person Nebbie crew in Matrix, only Morpheus
actually had any Zion codes. If he died, they probably would have had to
rendevouz with another ship before they’d be able to return to Zion, either to
get codes for the next-in-line, or to caravan back home with someone who does
have codes.
| |
I was still trying to figure out the whole Architect conversation, and Neo’s
strange ability in the “real” world. These two events lead me to believe
(and many others) that there is another layer to the Matrix (Agent Smith, in
the first movie, stated that humans rejected the first Matrix. Some humans
are also going to reject the second, current, Matrix, so it’s possible a
third Matrix was made to catch the rejects so “crops” won’t be lost).
|
I got the impression that the first Matrix failed outright, and that rather than
being layered like an onion, the subsequent Matrices have been serial
stand-alones, coming one after another. It’s clear from the Architect
conversation that Neo was intended to start a new Zion, while the current Matrix
would be replaced with the latest upgrade just as it’s been done before. Matrix
rejection seems to work more on a physical level than a mental one, so having
another layer of VR to “catch” the reject isn’t likely to help much if the
physical body is causing the battery pod to hiccup. Being machines, they
probably prefer to spit out a “defective” battery instead of investing a lot of
energy into trying to fix it. Besides, if you did intend to layer “safety
nets”, having them think they’re waking up from a run-of-the-mill dream should
be much more effective at stabilizing them than having them wake up in one of
those freaky battery pods.
As for Neo’s ability, well, remember that these people are heavily cyberized
with a not insignificant amount of computer hardware. Smith was essentially
able to rewrite some guy’s harddrive by virtue of this fact. We don’t really
know exactly how powerful this gear is, but Neo is obviously able to use it in
ways that none of his contemporaries can, and that last trick is something
that’s probably never been done by anyone before. I think it’s probably
something along the lines of using his cyberware to project a low-level EMP.
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|
"John Riley" <Rohnjiley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HIw6Dv.178o@lugnet.com...
> WARNING: I forgot to put a spoiler warning for those of you who have not • seen
> Animatrix or Reloaded yet.
<El Snippo>
neo's abilities in the real world made sense to me, if one cares to take a
very broad view of how he alters the matrix. through concentration, he is
able to bend the physics of the matrix (so he can fly, run on walls, stop
bullets, etc). it seems logical that these capabilities would carry over, at
a greatly reduced level, into the real world. (kinda like flight-training in
a simulator. you can't learn how to fly perfectly in a box on hydraulics,
but you can get a pretty good idea how to fly). and as stated in the first
movie, the human body produces a great deal of energy. neo simply
concentrated of projecting that energy from his body like a wall... and it
worked, but doing so sapped his body of the energy it naturally produces,
hence the coma. in the matrix, his abilities are like enetering cheat-codes,
but since the matrix emulates reality, he is in essence forcing reality to
accept his cheat-codes.
and on the subject of weapons, it makes sense to me that some hoverships are
armed, and some are unarmed. the Osiris looked like a much more substantial
craft than the Nebuchadnezzar, and if you recall from the first movie, the N
was built in the US (if I remember the inscription on the core correctly),
which would mean it has been around since before the second renaissance.
they were probably light military craft, with the osiris more likely to
encounter enemies, and thus was equipped to fight back while it was running
away. (I wish we could've seen the battle for Zion...)
anyway, just my $.02
-Anthony
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|
In lugnet.space, Anthony Babington wrote:
>
> "John Riley" <Rohnjiley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:HIw6Dv.178o@lugnet.com...
> > WARNING: I forgot to put a spoiler warning for those of you who have not seen
> > Animatrix or Reloaded yet.
>
> <El Snippo>
ditto
>
> and as stated in the first
> movie, the human body produces a great deal of energy.
If I might interject and flog this dead beast some more, if there was fusion
energy available, why the need for humans? If the robots had fusion technology,
the only point in keeping people around would be as reactor fodder, NOT as a
source of power themselves.
> in the matrix, his abilities are like enetering cheat-codes,
> but since the matrix emulates reality, he is in essence forcing reality to
> accept his cheat-codes.
I'd agree with this more readily than anything else. But the biggest
question/problem for me is: Why do the agents have limited ammo? They're
programs. They should be programmed with unlimited ammo. Whether they operate
in the "real world" or not, if {everything} is part of the Matrix, and is, in
effect, a line of computer code, then the agents should have been able to have
unlimited ammo, and hence blown that wussy neo-Jesus Neo away. (Hooray!)
> anyway, just my $.02
>
> -Anthony
I'll see your 2¢, and raise you 4¢. ;)
Mike
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In lugnet.space, Michael Bosch wrote:
> If I might interject and flog this dead beast some more, if there was fusion
> energy available, why the need for humans? If the robots had fusion
> technology, the only point in keeping people around would be as reactor
> fodder, NOT as a source of power themselves.
If you think that's a problem, consider this. How much energy do they need
to produce to _feed_ all of those people? How much energy are those people
capable of producing? Where do they get all the extra energy required to keep
up with food production for their power-hungry "batteries"? Humans cannot
produce more energy than their intake, so they would actually cause a _loss_ of
power when used as batteries. Of course,t hat would pretty much blow the entire
purpose of doing the movie...
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|
In lugnet.space, David Laswell wrote:
> In lugnet.space, Michael Bosch wrote:
> > If I might interject and flog this dead beast some more, if there was fusion
> > energy available, why the need for humans? If the robots had fusion
> > technology, the only point in keeping people around would be as reactor
> > fodder, NOT as a source of power themselves.
>
> If you think that's a problem, consider this. How much energy do they need
> to produce to _feed_ all of those people? How much energy are those people
> capable of producing? Where do they get all the extra energy required to keep
> up with food production for their power-hungry "batteries"? Humans cannot
> produce more energy than their intake, so they would actually cause a _loss_ of
> power when used as batteries. Of course,t hat would pretty much blow the entire
> purpose of doing the movie...
My impression from the first movie is that after a human is no longer useful for
energy production, they are pureed and fed to other humans thru IVs. You still
have a net loss of chemical energy each generation though, since some carbon,
water, etc is lost due to breathing.
If the machines really do exist (i.e. there aren't multiple levels of the
Matrix), I'm surprised they haven't copied the humans and tapped geothermal
energy as a power source. While not limitless, it's darn close.
Using humans as "batteries" just seems so inefficient. To me, there must be an
ulterior motive to enslaving humans as such.
"Revelations" better come around full circle and answer these questions (the
title suggests so).
Time to plug back into the real world.
John
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|
John Riley's utterance expressed in news:HJ9AIv.22zx@lugnet.com:
> Using humans as "batteries" just seems so inefficient. To me, there
> must be an ulterior motive to enslaving humans as such.
This has been discussed a lot in the local danish movie-group on
usenet and the general conclusion is that the machines enslave the
humans partky for energy, but mostly for humiliating them. The
machines were exploited and mistreated by us - hence they want
revenge. We know that the machines have emotions - so it is not
impossible for them to feel hate, revenge etc.
> "Revelations" better come around full circle and answer these
> questions (the title suggests so).
Revolutions that is...
> Time to plug back into the real world.
This (usenet / LUGnet) is the real world!! outside is just a place,
a dreamworld where I can build with LEGOs :) *
Play on!
* allright.. just kiddin'
--
| lars gjerløw jørgensen | lgj[at]jyde[dot]dk |
| N55 43.184 E12 32.405 | www.lgj.dk | oz2lgj |
Mrs. Black: "Filth! Scum! By-products of dirt and vileness!
Half-breeds, mutants, freaks, begone from this place! How
dare you befoul the house of my fathers --"
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|
Lars Gjerløw Jørgensen <lgjPURGE@jyde.dk> wrote:
> This has been discussed a lot in the local danish movie-group on usenet
> and the general conclusion is that the machines enslave the humans
> partky for energy, but mostly for humiliating them. The machines were
> exploited and mistreated by us - hence they want revenge. We know that
> the machines have emotions - so it is not impossible for them to feel
> hate, revenge etc.
"Partly" for energy wouldn't even work. We're *really* inefficient
batteries. But luckily, there's an even better possibility -- they're
using the humans as a big biological computer. A supercluster of neural
networks. They run the matrix to keep everyone's mind stimulated, and use
the rest of the CPU power for their own jobs. This is particularly cool
because it makes the behavior of the agents -- and Neo's powers -- make
more sense. If the Matrix were run on a big traditional binary-computing
mainframe somewhere, there'd be no need for a movie, because the sysadmins
would have just solved the problem.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
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In lugnet.space, Jon Palmer wrote:
| |
In lugnet.space, John Riley wrote:
| |
The Animatrix is a good resource. The first
Animatrix film, “Flight of the Osiris,” has the hovership Osiris combatting
Sentinels. They used machine gun turrets, similar to the laser turrets that
Han & Luke use to shoot down TIE Fighters in the Star Wars Millenium Falcon.
|
I actually totally forgot about seeing this. After seeing Dreamcatcher I’ve
been trying to forget about it ever since. Maybe my brain accidentally
lumped “Osiris” in with it. This is perfect. Thank you!
|
Hi,
I have not read the entire thread carefully, but I believe nobody has yet talked
about the (PS2)game “Enter The Matrix” ?! When I came to the last level
WARNING!!! SPOILER!!! I had to defend Niobe’s hovercraft from Sentinels, by
manning the machine gun turrets at the front and at the rear of this craft,
called the Logos. Ofcourse it also has an EMP aboard, but -like written
elsewhere in this thread- this is only used as a last resort...
According to the info of ‘Enter the Matrix’ The Logos is a smaller hovership, by
concept similar to the Osiris. The Logos would be the most maneuvreable and
fastest hovership of all. Niobe is captain aboard , Ghost is gunner and there’s
a third person (play the game to find out who....), has at least 2
‘plug-in-seats’(?) to jack into the Matrix and has two gun turrets (one at the
front and one at the rear) plus an EMP... ...indeed, playing this game, you’ll
find out the Sentinels have no shielding, but WARNING, SPOILER the last kind
of Sentinel you’ll have to fight is way smarter, has got a different shape
(bigger also) and is more difficult to defeat...
Hope this helps you too, John, when creating your craft!
Greetings from a big time lurker from Holland,
Erik Boons (Lugnet member 1386)
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| |
The last Animatrix film, “Matriculated,” shows how the freed humans try to
capture and convert the machines. So a hovership could possibly have
deployable bots for combat. Depends on the ethics of the captain.
|
|
The Logos has none (at least not in ‘Enter the Matrix’)...
| |
| |
.....I assume that the
hoverships have been outfitted with additional armanents, along with the
mecha suits (an unarmored mecha suit is seen when the Nebucaneezer arrives
in Zion in Matrix Reloaded).
|
|
The Logos has no mecha suits aboard either (lack of bots and additional armor
might explain why the Logos could be the fastest ship perhaps?)
| |
| |
Hope this helps with your inspiration: I look forward to seeing the
hovership (I assume this is why you asked!)
|
Oh definitely. I can’t believe I forgot about the Osiris. Machine guns baby,
machine guns.
|
Play Enter the Matrix if you can’t get enough of machine guns...!
(nope, I’m not a game software retailer ;-)
Erik ‘Bengh Zeran’ B
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"Jon Palmer" <jon@zemi.net> wrote in message news:HIu8Jv.1zts@lugnet.com...
> To my knowledge all we've seen is the EMP used in the first movie. There • was
> also the laser thing that Tank used on Cypher, but I don't know if that • sort of
> thing could be mounted on the exterior of the ship.
>
> I don't own the first movie, so I might be missing something.
>
> So, aside from the EMP device, what sort of weapons do you think Zion • would put
> on a hovership? Like maybe a smaller, more maneuverable, meaner • hovership. >:D
>
> All responses welcome!
You're not going to put the EMP on it, are you? How would you use it
without kocking out your own hovership?
--
Markham Carroll
BoogaTech Ships & Construction:
http://www.mocpages.com/home.php/114
Brickshelf Gallery:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?m=Markham
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In lugnet.space, Markham Carroll wrote:
| |
You’re not going to put the EMP on it, are you? How would you use it
without kocking out your own hovership?
|
Well that’s the thing. It’s a last resort sort of weapon in the movies.
I’m sure every ship has it but it’s a bad idea to use it too soon (as referenced
in Reloaded)
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In lugnet.space, Markham Carroll wrote:
> You're not going to put the EMP on it, are you? How would you use it
> without kocking out your own hovership?
The same way they used the Nebbie's without knocking that ship out (which
was a pretty impressive feat, considering how chewed the ship was by the time
they used it. Since it's equipped with an EMP generator, one would assume it's
got some sort of shielding built in. How that shielding managed to survive
having the ship opened like a sardine can is a mystery, but so is the fact that
the Sentinels don't seem to have any sort of shielding at all.
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In lugnet.space, Jon Palmer wrote:
| |
To my knowledge all we’ve seen is the EMP used in the first movie. There was
also the laser thing that Tank used on Cypher, but I don’t know if that sort
of thing could be mounted on the exterior of the ship.
I don’t own the first movie, so I might be missing something.
So, aside from the EMP device, what sort of weapons do you think Zion would
put on a hovership? Like maybe a smaller, more maneuverable, meaner
hovership. >:D
|
Prior to the release of Animatrix, I would have said it was just the EMP
generator, since Trinity (I think) clearly stated that it was their only defense
against the Sentinels. Even with the release of Animatrix showing the Osiris
using projectile weapons I would have chalked it up to “artistic
license”...except the W. brothers wrote the script for that short, and they’re
the ones who have final say on Matrix canon. I think the real answer lies
somewhere between the Nebbie being outfitted differently than the Osiris per
mission requirements (like how the SR-71 doesn’t carry the same large gun and
rack of missiles/bombs that the A-10 does), and Zion beginning to prepare for a
more direct war with the machines due to The One being found. Of course, the
Nebbie didn’t exhibit any alternate means of attack in Reloaded either...
Anyways, I’m not sure how canon the other five Animatrix shorts are, so I doubt
they are officially playing with the idea of deployable robots (since anything
smart enough to fight the Sentinels could be subverted by them instead), but
projectile weapons, Tank’s electrogun, and the EMP generator are probably the
only three weapon types I’d feel were appropriate.
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