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In lugnet.general, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.general, Rob Hendrix wrote:
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ALE is Adult Lego Enthusiast, a newer (and preferred by at least some) term
over
AFOL.
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Renaming be damned! I like old-school, old-time.
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To purists, I barely qualify as an “AFOL,” but even I agree that that term
is preferable to “ALE.” AFOL has history behind it, and its creation was
organic, rather than deliberate, and it therefore has greater aesthetic appeal
to me on those grounds alone.
I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish. Heck, if
we really want to sound self-important, why don’t we just call ourselves
“Brights?”
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An AFOL who builds MOCs who also may be a Curmudgeon,
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That’s “An AFOLWBMWAMBAC,” to you.
Dave!
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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To purists, I barely qualify as an “AFOL,” but even I agree that that
term is preferable to “ALE.” AFOL has history behind it, and its creation
was organic, rather than deliberate, and it therefore has greater aesthetic
appeal to me on those grounds alone.
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So, you like it better because there was little thought behind it? Next you’ll
be saying you voted for Bush. :)
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I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
|
Some people spell it out, but even that isn’t very euphonic -- unlike the other
initialisms you mention, AFOL when spelled quickly sounds more like a word
(ayafoal) than a string of letters.
But the real problem isn’t when speaking to other ALEs (or whatever you choose
to call them), but when speaking to people who aren’t into LEGO. I’ve tried
this on a number of occasions since coming out of my dark ages: “I’m an adult
fan of LEGO...” The result is almost always a “you’re joking, right?” sort of
grin, because it sounds so ridiculously pompous. It’s like saying “I’m a
drinker of wines.” It’s stilted and sounds silly. When have you ever heard a
train enthusiast describe themselves as an “adult fan of trains”?
So, from now on, I’ll be introducing my passion this way: “I’m an adult LEGO
enthusiast” -- “LEGO enthusiast” just like “train enthusiast,” plus “adult”
since (unlike the train hobby) LEGO is still seen by most people as a toy for
children. Adding “adult” defines adult LEGO enthusiasts as a group, implying
that there are others, and that the speaker isn’t just having maturity issues.
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IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish.
|
Nonsense; it’s a standard term -- there are train enthusiasts, wine enthusiasts,
music enthusiasts and so on. If you want effete and snobbish, use “afficionado”
instead. (And if you want crass, use “buff” -- enthusiast is comfortably in the
middle.)
Laugh all you want, but I think this is a small but important part of getting
the society we live in to accept and understand the LEGO hobby.
Best,
- Joe
P.S. Is this really off-topic?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Joe Strout wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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To purists, I barely qualify as an “AFOL,” but even I agree that that
term is preferable to “ALE.” AFOL has history behind it, and its creation
was organic, rather than deliberate, and it therefore has greater aesthetic
appeal to me on those grounds alone.
|
So, you like it better because there was little thought behind it? Next
you’ll be saying you voted for Bush. :)
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I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
|
Some people spell it out, but even that isn’t very euphonic -- unlike the
other initialisms you mention, AFOL when spelled quickly sounds more like a
word (ayafoal) than a string of letters.
But the real problem isn’t when speaking to other ALEs (or whatever you
choose to call them), but when speaking to people who aren’t into LEGO.
I’ve tried this on a number of occasions since coming out of my dark ages:
“I’m an adult fan of LEGO...” The result is almost always a “you’re joking,
right?” sort of grin, because it sounds so ridiculously pompous.
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Ahem, Joe, but they were mocking your hobby choice, not your title! :-)
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It’s like
saying “I’m a drinker of wines.”
|
I’ve always preferred “lush”, but “wine taster” isn’t much better.
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It’s stilted and sounds silly. When have
you ever heard a train enthusiast describe themselves as an “adult fan of
trains”?
So, from now on, I’ll be introducing my passion this way: “I’m an adult LEGO
enthusiast” -- “LEGO enthusiast” just like “train enthusiast,” plus “adult”
since (unlike the train hobby) LEGO is still seen by most people as a toy for
children. Adding “adult” defines adult LEGO enthusiasts as a group, implying
that there are others, and that the speaker isn’t just having maturity
issues.
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Don’t be surprised if they still laugh:-)
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IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish.
|
Nonsense; it’s a standard term -- there are train enthusiasts, wine
enthusiasts, music enthusiasts and so on. If you want effete and snobbish,
use “afficionado” instead. (And if you want crass, use “buff” -- enthusiast
is comfortably in the middle.)
Laugh all you want, but I think this is a small but important part of getting
the society we live in to accept and understand the LEGO hobby.
|
Joe, terms like “AFOL” are “in-house”, part of our jargon, and not intended for
the unwashed GP. The fact is that the GP won’t accept you whatever acro you
decide to call yourself-- you will be shunned, and you will only find solice
back here with us.
We are geeks, pathetically playing with toys, and we must learn to accept it,
and not try to pander to the unenlightened. We are the Neoilluminati!
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P.S. Is this really off-topic?
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Yes and no;-)
JOHN
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Joe Strout wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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To purists, I barely qualify as an “AFOL,” but even I agree that that
term is preferable to “ALE.” AFOL has history behind it, and its creation
was organic, rather than deliberate, and it therefore has greater aesthetic
appeal to me on those grounds alone.
|
So, you like it better because there was little thought behind it? Next
you’ll be saying you voted for Bush. :)
|
Holy moley, them’s fightin’ words!
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I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
|
Some people spell it out, but even that isn’t very euphonic -- unlike the
other initialisms you mention, AFOL when spelled quickly sounds more like a
word (ayafoal) than a string of letters.
|
I don’t know. I can think of all kinds of abbreviations that don’t snuggle into
the ear all that pleasantly. The Society for Creative Anachronisms (The SCA,
which sounds like ESS-YAY) is one such example. Participants in that group
are called “SCAdians,” though.
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But the real problem isn’t when speaking to other ALEs (or whatever you
choose to call them), but when speaking to people who aren’t into LEGO.
I’ve tried this on a number of occasions since coming out of my dark ages:
“I’m an adult fan of LEGO...” The result is almost always a “you’re joking,
right?” sort of grin, because it sounds so ridiculously pompous. It’s like
saying “I’m a drinker of wines.” It’s stilted and sounds silly. When have
you ever heard a train enthusiast describe themselves as an “adult fan of
trains”?
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To be honest, I’ve never heard anyone describe himself as an enthusiast of any
hobby. Even if he did, he wouldn’t say “I’m an adult train enthusiast,” because
that sounds like he’s only into burlesque trains (which he may be, but that’s
beside the point...)
If you’re really invested in the term, I’d suggest dropping “Adult” from the
acronym because it serves no purpose other than compartmentalization. If you’re
speaking to non-LEGO savvy listeners, chances are good that they’ll recognize
you as an adult, right? And if you’re discussing it in writing, you’d have to
explain the acronym the first time you use it anyway, thusly:
“Hi all, I’m an Adult Lego Enthusiast (ALE), and here’s my story. I’ve been an
ALE for several years, and...”
In euphonic terms, pronouncing the word “ALE” isn’t much better or different
from spelling the abbreviation “LE,” and the latter is (IMO) superior by virtue
of being less arbitrarily subdivided.
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So, from now on, I’ll be introducing my passion this way: “I’m an adult LEGO
enthusiast” -- “LEGO enthusiast” just like “train enthusiast,” plus “adult”
since (unlike the train hobby) LEGO is still seen by most people as a toy for
children. Adding “adult” defines adult LEGO enthusiasts as a group, implying
that there are others, and that the speaker isn’t just having maturity
issues.
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Well, that’s a good explanation, but even insofar as I’ve never heard anyone
self-described as an enthusiast, I’ve never heard any non-adult described as
an “enthusiast” by anyone!
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IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish.
|
Nonsense; it’s a standard term -- there are train enthusiasts, wine
enthusiasts, music enthusiasts and so on. If you want effete and snobbish,
use “afficionado” instead. (And if you want crass, use “buff” -- enthusiast
is comfortably in the middle.)
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What’s wrong with “Hobbyist” as a term? We all participate in LEGO as a hobby,
right? Do we all participate in LEGO as an enthusiasm? I know, it’s not a 100%
precise comparison, but I think it underscores my point that “enthusiast,”
though certainly part of the lexicon, just sounds tritely artificial to me.
Like referring to a “Bottle Shoppe” for no particular reason.
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Laugh all you want, but I think this is a small but important part of getting
the society we live in to accept and understand the LEGO hobby.
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Jeez, is it as serious as all that? I couldn’t care less if society accepts or
understand my involvement in the hobby. And, judging from the huge response
that LEGO train shows seem to garner, society welcomes “us” as well as it
welcomes any subculture of hobbyists. Even the aforementioned SCA, haven for
ubergeeks of all stripes, attracts a huge crowd whenever it puts on a public
demonstration.
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P.S. Is this really off-topic?
|
I wondered the same thing. Curse that scoundrel John Neal and his willy-nilly
FUT-ing!
Dave!
FUT lugnet.general
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Joe Strout wrote:
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But the real problem isn’t when speaking to other ALEs (or whatever you
choose to call them), but when speaking to people who aren’t into LEGO.
I’ve tried this on a number of occasions since coming out of my dark ages:
“I’m an adult fan of LEGO...”
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Huh-- I almost never say “fan of Lego” or “AFOL” to people who aren’t in the
hobby, because it just doesn’t give them a good frame of reference. I think I’ve
always said “Lego Hobbyist” because that’s what people understand.
Usually “fan” is used in reference to things like sports teams, music artists,
actors, etc. Something that denotes “I’m cheering for you” or “I love watching
you do your thing”.
A hobbyist or enthusiast is typically *involved* in an activity, rather than a
spectator. At least, that’s how I’ve come to understand the use of the word in
common speak. So I usually say “hobbyist” because I think it’s a little more
descriptive to the general public of what I do. IE, it’s something I’m involved
with that I’m not doing “professionally”, that I do in my spare time.
Essentially, I think the connatations of “Lego Hobbyist” are much more
meaningful to people OUTSIDE the hobby than “Lego Fan” or “Lego Enthusiast”.
However, INSIDE the hobby is a different story. I think “fan” is something that
caught on just like “Lego Maniac” sorta used to be. It might not be true
(because we’re not ACTUALLY maniacs or anything), but it’s that kind of amusing
slant on ourselves that exaggerates the point. Like saying “I’m just crazy
enough to buy that”. Are you actually saying you’re crazy? Nah. You’re just sort
of having a bit of joking fun at the notion of needing to be crazy. Poking fun
at yourself. In that same way, I think “fan” took off as a descriptor within the
community. Enough so as to become the ‘norm’ for how we describe ourselves.
Within the community, we reference ourselves a lot. Having a name for ourselves
just makes sense-- but the actual name itself means little to me, personally. We
could’ve called ourselves Fibblesnorks (the paleolithic ancestor of Fleebnorks)
for all I care. To me, an “AFOL” isn’t necessarily a “fan”, or even an “adult”.
It’s a person who’s ‘serious’ about the Lego hobby, insofar as they appreciate
more than just the play aspects that children enjoy. A person who enjoys Lego
for its modeling, utilitarian, nostalgic, or collectable value, and who isn’t
likely to abandon it lightly.
Whatever we call ourselves, that’s probably the name I’ll use. For now, I think
“AFOL” is still going to be the accepted norm, but if “ALE” catches on more, I
might start using that. To me, the actual name means little. I’ll likely
understand the name as who we really are as a community, not by the constituent
words or the connotation of whatever it is we call ourselves.
DaveE
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I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
|
I’ve often had to descibe myself and what I do in my class to school
administrators, and I always use “Adult LEGO Fan”, which I suppose would be ALF
- but I know you guys don’t wanna be ALFs! Usually when I describe the community
(especially the LDraw community) to others in the CAD field I use the term
“Crazy LEGO People.” This seems to go over well with non-ALFs. :)
I don’t really understand why people don’t want to consider themselves “fans” or
“fanatics” - if you look up the definition of the word “fanatic” I think it
applies to a lot of us, me included. Maybe because it has a sports connotation
and many here aren’t into sports? Whatever.. ALE has other (far stronger)
connotations that I think detract from what the abbreviation is supposed to be
about. I think AFOL just one of those things that’s here to stay.
BTW, LUG is also used by the Autodesk CAD Community for “Local User Group” - I
haven’t bothered to correct them yet..
Darrell
ALF or, I suppose,
(Nut Brown) ALE.
mmmm... Newcastle!
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
(snip)
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IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish. Heck,
if we really want to sound self-important, why don’t we just call ourselves
“Brights?”
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(snip)
Whenever I read “IMO” I pronounce it in my noggin as “ih-my-oh” all fluidlike,
one word. Ihmyoh. The “ih” is like the beginning of “idiot”, the “my” is just
like the word, and the “oh” is like the beginning of “ohio”
IMHO is “ih-my-ho”, FYI ( <-- but that is just said letter by letter)
ROFL is “rofl” just as it is spelled, though...
~KEVOH <-- pronounced letter by letter ;)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
why don’t we just call ourselves
“Brights?”
|
lol I’m trying to push “neoilluminati” but it
isn’t taking:-( Maybe “Legoluminati”?
Just trying to help.
JOHN
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Hello!
> > I don't care if either is "easier" to pronounce--no one I know "pronounces"
> > [ETA,] [RSVP,] or [USA.] "AFOL" is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
I say "eta" (That's a terror organization in the Spanish Basque region.) or
E-T-A (meaning "estimated time of arrival"), R-S-V-P (what the heck is it?) and
U-S-A. But I say "afol" and "mock" and "burp" because:
> unlike the
> other initialisms you mention, AFOL when spelled quickly sounds more like a
> word (ayafoal) than a string of letters.
Or does anybody say B-U-R-P to a BURP? Or S-N-O-T to SNOT?
> So, from now on, I'll be introducing my passion this way: "I'm an adult LEGO
> enthusiast"
When discribing my hobby to non-LEGO-fans I usually say "I build with LEGO."
Telling them any Acronym wouldn't help them much. And they often see for
themselves that I am an adult.
> > IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
> > "enthusiast" is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish.
That's what I think, too.
Also, in German "enthusiast" is considered a "foreign word" (dunno how the
situation is in English), not everybody is able to spell it correctly, many
people don't know what it means or don't even know the word at all. Words like
this are merely used by advanced users of language (AUOLs).
How I understand it: An enthusiast is somebody who gets always glistering eyes
when speaking about his hobby. - That's truely not the case with me, so I am not
an enthusiast. Therefore "ALE" wouldn't apply to me at all. I am an adult friend
of LEGO (LEGO the bricks, not LEGO the company). That's best aconym-ed in
"AFOL".
Bye
Jojo
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Johannes Koehler wrote:
> Hello!
Hi JoJo!
> I say "eta" (That's a terror organization in the Spanish Basque region.) or
> E-T-A (meaning "estimated time of arrival"), R-S-V-P (what the heck is it?)
Respondez Sil Vous Plait (1) HTH!
++Lar (can we pick one FUT? I think .people but what do I know?)
1 - IIRC(2)... it's French or something for "get back to me whether you are
coming to my party or not because I need to know how much beer to order" or
something...
2 - Which I never say as "irk", I always say Eye Eye Are Cee...
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Hello!
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Respondez Sil Vous Plait (1) HTH!
Merci beaucoup!
> (can we pick one FUT?)
I posted to .general because I wrote about something LEGO-related. And to
.debate because it was debate-ish.
> 1 - IIRC(2)... it's French or something for "get back to me whether you are
> coming to my party or not because I need to know how much beer to order"
Yeah, thanks, I'm coming to that party! Would you pay for my taxi?
> 2 - Which I never say as "irk", I always say Eye Eye Are Cee...
How do you pronounce "LOL"? Better asked: Does anybody ever pronounce it? Ain't
www-acronyms like that only used in written communication?
Bye
Jojo
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Johannes Koehler wrote:
> Yeah, thanks, I'm coming to that party! Would you pay for my taxi?
Taxi OR beer, whichever's less. I guess... Assuming I have any money left after
BF... Apparently some rumor got started that I'm buying rounds at Rocklands???
Gonna be hard to pull off because Nik'll be with me again this year and I don't
think I can sneak him in the way I did 2 years ago...
Anyway, not gonna happen.
Well maybe I'll buy rounds just for the people that actually like me (and can
prove it... somehow...), that should be a lot cheaper...
> > 2 - Which I never say as "irk", I always say Eye Eye Are Cee...
>
> How do you pronounce "LOL"? Better asked: Does anybody ever pronounce it? Ain't
> www-acronyms like that only used in written communication?
Ya I think so, except in rare circumstances. But the question still comes up,
how do you say it "in your head" when you're reading it, even if you don't voice
it... I actually say LOL "loll" in my head, believe it or not, unlike IIRC...
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> Well maybe I'll buy rounds just for the people that actually like me (and
> can
> prove it... somehow...), that should be a lot cheaper...
Crap, there's always a catch isn't there?
Rob
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Johannes Koehler wrote:
| |
How do you pronounce “LOL”? Better asked: Does anybody ever pronounce it?
Ain’t www-acronyms like that only used in written communication?
|
Ya I think so, except in rare circumstances. But the question still comes up,
how do you say it “in your head” when you’re reading it, even if you don’t
voice it... I actually say LOL “loll” in my head, believe it or not, unlike
IIRC...
|
What a strange person! Acros are to save time typing, neh? So, why wouldn’t
one voice it out “in one’s head”? Whenever I read an acro, I unsuffit.
Unless a person is too important and their time too valuable to take that extra
nanosecond or two to do it? ;-)
JOHN
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Johannes Koehler wrote:
| |
How do you pronounce “LOL”? Better asked: Does anybody ever pronounce it?
Ain’t www-acronyms like that only used in written communication?
|
Ya I think so, except in rare circumstances. But the question still comes
up, how do you say it “in your head” when you’re reading it, even if you
don’t voice it... I actually say LOL “loll” in my head, believe it or not,
unlike IIRC...
|
What a strange person! Acros are to save time typing, neh? So, why
wouldn’t one voice it out “in one’s head”? Whenever I read an acro, I
unsuffit.
|
The voices in my head talk slowly, so that I can understand what they are
saying... apparently yours don’t, and talk so fast that you’re getting garbled
messages?
That certainly would explain a lot!
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Unless a person is too important and their time too valuable to take that
extra nanosecond or two to do it? ;-)
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Yep, that’s me all right...
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> > Unless a person is too important and their time too valuable to take that
> > extra nanosecond or two to do it? ;-)
>
> Yep, that's me all right...
Of all the people who *could* have responded to [JOHN], I knew you would be
the first (if not the only) to chime in and say that. You're becoming too
easy to read. Time to change your modus operandi...
Rob
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