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On 06/07/06, Gabriel McGrath <gabesemail2000-spam@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm working on a free computer game, for a competition promoting
> accessibility in gaming. (ie making games more accessable for older
> players, younger players, people with disabilities)
>
> Why post here? I want to use lego for the graphics.
> (And the competition ends in *August*, so I don't have much time!)
>
> The game I'm remaking is the 1988 arcade game, Operaton Wolf.
> http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=O&game_id=8927
>
> I need helpers who can pose & photograph certain minifigs,
> so I can use them in the game. Any assitance will be credited!
> The other option, is to render all this stuff with Povray.
> I don't mind which way we go, but it needs to be "one or the other"
> or else things won't match up.
> We need to be able to have minifigs holding assorted guns,
> and also posed to animate walking, falling when shot, etc.
>
> I've done some research, and some appropriate minifigs include..
> *Johnny Thunder (1355,1370)
> *Max Villano (5901, 5902, 5956, 5976)
> *Flex, Arctic (4742, 4774)
> *Red Halter top (6401, 6409, 6411)
> *Sparks (1277, 3348, 4930, 4990)
>
> (That's why I've crossposted to adventurers & military)
>
> I also need people up to the challenge of building
> the vehicles in the game.
> Good news: They don't look too complicated..
> and you only need to build one side!
> (like how Hollywood sets only have one side)
>
> Here are some pictures to give you an idea of what's needed...
> (if prompted, password is "lugnet")
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/David_Manning/Operation_Block/OpWolf_level1_sprites.png
>
> And here's my attempt at building level 1, using the program "Return to
> Blockland".
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/David_Manning/Operation_Block/OperationBlockWIP1.jpg
>
>
> All help or hints VERY gratefully received!
>
> I've requested help at other lego forums, and got no assistance.
>
> I'm hoping Lugnetters are a bit nicer,
> as I'm seriously running out of time with this project!
>
>
> Gabriel
>
>
> --
>
> NB: swap "spam" for "lugnet" in my email address. :-)
Hi there Gabriel,
This sounds very cool. I am not sure I can help you with provision of
sprites, but have you thought of using a script to convert LDraw
models to simpler meshes (with textures), and then animating those. I
know you are going for a somewhat retro look, but maybe a cell-shading
cartoon technique could be used, meanwhile animation and posing is
entirely down to you. I am crossposting this to lugnet.cad and
lugnet.gaming, which may help you out as those groups are far closer
to what you are trying to acheive.
One thing I do know a little about is game coding, having been a
professional one for a few years, so if you run into real difficulties
there, do ask. I am not sure what the correct Lugnet group would be
for that, as it is a little different from other stuff here, possibly
lugnet.cad.dev? Anyone?
Have you thought of asing for the fractal landscape generation code,
or just generating a few and rendering them to get your backgrounds?
You can get a consistent all block feel then.
You could get things like tanks, helicopters, trains and bunkers by
looking around on Lugnet, and brickshelf and asking people to use
their MOC's - I am sure some would oblige, but you may have to ask
them to volunteer such models, and do a bit of the dogwork yourself to
find them. I also remember one chap who id a whole range of pretty
realistic looking Lego ordinance, so you may want to find him too.
Anyway, good luck, I look forward to seeing the result.
--
Danny Staple MBCS
OrionRobots
http://orionrobots.co.uk/blogs/dannystaple
(Full contact details available through website)
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danny staple wrote:
> On 06/07/06, Gabriel McGrath <gabesemail2000-spam@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm working on a free computer game, for a competition promoting
> > accessibility in gaming. (ie making games more accessable for older
> > players, younger players, people with disabilities)
> >
> > Why post here? I want to use lego for the graphics.
> > (And the competition ends in *August*, so I don't have much time!)
> >
> > The game I'm remaking is the 1988 arcade game, Operaton Wolf.
> > http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=O&game_id=8927
> >
> > I need helpers who can pose & photograph certain minifigs,
> > so I can use them in the game. Any assitance will be credited!
> > The other option, is to render all this stuff with Povray.
> > I don't mind which way we go, but it needs to be "one or the other"
> > or else things won't match up.
> > We need to be able to have minifigs holding assorted guns,
> > and also posed to animate walking, falling when shot, etc.
> >
> > I've done some research, and some appropriate minifigs include..
> > *Johnny Thunder (1355,1370)
> > *Max Villano (5901, 5902, 5956, 5976)
> > *Flex, Arctic (4742, 4774)
> > *Red Halter top (6401, 6409, 6411)
> > *Sparks (1277, 3348, 4930, 4990)
> >
> > (That's why I've crossposted to adventurers & military)
> >
> > I also need people up to the challenge of building
> > the vehicles in the game.
> > Good news: They don't look too complicated..
> > and you only need to build one side!
> > (like how Hollywood sets only have one side)
> >
> > Here are some pictures to give you an idea of what's needed...
> > (if prompted, password is "lugnet")
> > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/David_Manning/Operation_Block/OpWolf_level1_sprites.png
> >
> >
> > And here's my attempt at building level 1, using the program "Return to
> > Blockland".
> > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/David_Manning/Operation_Block/OperationBlockWIP1.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > All help or hints VERY gratefully received!
> >
> > I've requested help at other lego forums, and got no assistance.
> >
> > I'm hoping Lugnetters are a bit nicer,
> > as I'm seriously running out of time with this project!
> >
> >
> > Gabriel
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > NB: swap "spam" for "lugnet" in my email address. :-)
>
> Hi there Gabriel,
> This sounds very cool. I am not sure I can help you with provision of
> sprites, but have you thought of using a script to convert LDraw
> models to simpler meshes (with textures), and then animating those. I
> know you are going for a somewhat retro look, but maybe a cell-shading
> cartoon technique could be used, meanwhile animation and posing is
> entirely down to you. I am crossposting this to lugnet.cad and
> lugnet.gaming, which may help you out as those groups are far closer
> to what you are trying to acheive.
Danny, thanks for the reply.
I have just discovered the Lcad->MLcad->l3p->povray method,
and though I've only done the first 2 steps, I can see
(having seen some nice POV renders on websites) the quality that can be
achieved.
As for your suggestion re script/meshes, I'm afraid that sounds way
beyond my technical capabilities, and the time I have to achieve it.
So - I'll just go with a vanilla povray output. :-)
> One thing I do know a little about is game coding, having been a
> professional one for a few years, so if you run into real difficulties
> there, do ask. I am not sure what the correct Lugnet group would be
> for that, as it is a little different from other stuff here, possibly
> lugnet.cad.dev? Anyone?
In that case you may laugh, as I'm using GameMaker.
But hey, as long as it works.
> Have you thought of asing for the fractal landscape generation code,
> or just generating a few and rendering them to get your backgrounds?
> You can get a consistent all block feel then.
Again, that sounds way, way beyond my knowledge/ability, but thanks for
the thought.
> You could get things like tanks, helicopters, trains and bunkers by
> looking around on Lugnet, and brickshelf and asking people to use
> their MOC's - I am sure some would oblige, but you may have to ask
> them to volunteer such models, and do a bit of the dogwork yourself to
> find them. I also remember one chap who id a whole range of pretty
> realistic looking Lego ordinance, so you may want to find him too.
Geez, I've only discovered this whole "AFOL" thing,
and already I know what "MOC" means. TLAs galore!!
(3 letter acronyms)
Seriously, yes, could find military type MOCs about,
but I need them to look JUST LIKE the ones in Op Wolf,
so I suppose I'll have to build them myself.
If anyone is up for a challenge, I can supply the original sprites for
reference. :-)
> Anyway, good luck, I look forward to seeing the result.
Thanks again Danny, have posted my request in a nuymber of different
online lego forums (always within the correct forum) yet yours was the
first genuine response. :-) x 1,000
--
NB: swap "spam" for "lugnet" in my email address. :-)
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On 10/07/06, Gabriel McGrath <gabesemail2000-spam@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> danny staple wrote:
> > On 06/07/06, Gabriel McGrath <gabesemail2000-spam@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Hi there Gabriel,
> > This sounds very cool. I am not sure I can help you with provision of
> > sprites, but have you thought of using a script to convert LDraw
> > models to simpler meshes (with textures), and then animating those. I
> > know you are going for a somewhat retro look, but maybe a cell-shading
> > cartoon technique could be used, meanwhile animation and posing is
> > entirely down to you. I am crossposting this to lugnet.cad and
> > lugnet.gaming, which may help you out as those groups are far closer
> > to what you are trying to acheive.
>
> Danny, thanks for the reply.
> I have just discovered the Lcad->MLcad->l3p->povray method,
> and though I've only done the first 2 steps, I can see
> (having seen some nice POV renders on websites) the quality that can be
> achieved.
Excellent. I use that to present stuff occasionally too. Its not bad
at all. Have you considered using LPub, which can do the gruntwork for
you? Also, using LGEO which can make things look a bit nicer, and
MEGAPov which gives the Lego a more cartoony outlined feel?
> As for your suggestion re script/meshes, I'm afraid that sounds way
> beyond my technical capabilities, and the time I have to achieve it.
> So - I'll just go with a vanilla povray output. :-)
No worries there. Another idea, if you use LDraw steps in your models
to animate, then LPub can output the whole set of steps. So you could
just then use those as frames of animation - hey presto, animated
sprites....
> In that case you may laugh, as I'm using GameMaker.
> But hey, as long as it works.
Fair enough. Even in the C++ side of thing, a lot, in fact most game
programming is based on the "Hey as long as it works" premise.. You
dont think we seriously code real world physics models, most of it is
hack, layered upon hack, which looks good to the viewer, but is
mathematically as simple as we can get away with to fool the audience.
That is the real art of game coding...
> > Have you thought of asing for the fractal landscape generation code,
> > or just generating a few and rendering them to get your backgrounds?
> > You can get a consistent all block feel then.
>
> Again, that sounds way, way beyond my knowledge/ability, but thanks for
> the thought.
Hmm, okay, I think MLCad has a menu item to generate a fractal
landscape, so you could just generate a few mountainous ones, and then
use the LPub through POV method to get good looking renders from them.
Easy enough, its all point and click then.
> Geez, I've only discovered this whole "AFOL" thing,
Dont worry, it took me a few years too....
> and already I know what "MOC" means. TLAs galore!!
> (3 letter acronyms)
You wont get away from that, take any geek/enthusiast group of adults,
add in computers (not necessary), and TLAs (or longer acronyms) will
be an inevitable result. Maybe when you build your MOCs, you may want
to look up build techniques like SNOT (Studs Not On Top).
> Seriously, yes, could find military type MOCs about,
> but I need them to look JUST LIKE the ones in Op Wolf,
> so I suppose I'll have to build them myself.
Have fun. Are you going to go for any particular scale, or just build
them as big as they need to be for a good finish? At least by using
LDraw/MLCad you are not limiting yourself to your own box of Lego, and
might get away with colours on parts that may never have been made
with such colours...
> If anyone is up for a challenge, I can supply the original sprites for
> reference. :-)
I wander if Op-Wolf can run in MAME, I am sure it does... That could
be a good reference for someone, especially if you can stop the game
and freeze the output.
Danny
--
Danny Staple MBCS
OrionRobots
http://orionrobots.co.uk/blogs/dannystaple
(Full contact details available through website)
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danny staple wrote:
> Have you considered using LPub, which can do the gruntwork for
> you? Also, using LGEO which can make things look a bit nicer, and
> MEGAPov which gives the Lego a more cartoony outlined feel?
Ahh, I had read about LPub, but I thought it was just for showing
someone else how to build your model step-by-step?
Will download it now, as "X does the Gruntwork for you" is a very good
feature for me! Yes, downloaded LGEO as I saw the benefits,
but will have a look at MEGAPov, although I think "realistic" is more
the angle I'm taking.
> No worries there. Another idea, if you use LDraw steps in your models
> to animate, then LPub can output the whole set of steps. So you could
> just then use those as frames of animation - hey presto, animated
> sprites....
That sounds FANTASTIC.. just need to work out what LDraw steps are,
and how that works... searching, searching....
> Hmm, okay, I think MLCad has a menu item to generate a fractal
> landscape, so you could just generate a few mountainous ones, and then
> use the LPub through POV method to get good looking renders from them.
> Easy enough, its all point and click then.
Yes, keep me away from the evil prompt!
Hmmm.. fractal landscape could be cool, will check it out thanks.
> Have fun. Are you going to go for any particular scale, or just build
> them [the tanks, vehicles & buildings] as big as they need to be for a good finish?
> At least by using LDraw/MLCad you are not limiting yourself to your
own box of Lego,
> and might get away with colours on parts that may never have been made
> with such colours...
I am going to build them to scale, so everything looks "logical".
> I wander if Op-Wolf can run in MAME, I am sure it does... That could
> be a good reference for someone, especially if you can stop the game
> and freeze the output.
>
> Danny
Yes, I wouldn't be doing this project if it wasn't MAME-able!
Been using it's "record" function to watch myself playing the game
over & over & over to note how many men per section, etc etc
Also it's WAV recording facility, not to mention screenshotting
the entire level and gluing it all together in GIMP.
Thanks again - great suggestins galore!
--
NB: swap "spam" for "lugnet" in my email address. :-)
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On 11/07/06, Gabriel McGrath <gabesemail2000-spam@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Ahh, I had read about LPub, but I thought it was just for showing
> someone else how to build your model step-by-step?
> Will download it now, as "X does the Gruntwork for you" is a very good
> feature for me! Yes, downloaded LGEO as I saw the benefits,
> but will have a look at MEGAPov, although I think "realistic" is more
> the angle I'm taking.
In terms of "showing someone how to build your model", you would still
normally have to put in the work to show what the steps were. All LPub
does is provide a point/click workflow for getting it all rendered out
into a directory full of image files. It uses POV/Megapov, LGEO etc to
perform the output steps. It allows you to configure stuff like
lighting settings, camera positioning, how much you want to render
(all build steps, complete assembly, sub assemblies etc), what format
to output to (Jpg, png, bmp etc), wether to use LGEO or not, what
shaing/rendering model to use (I recommend using the lowest to tweak
camera and most other output settings, then upping when you are
looking at lighting) and much other stuff.
> > No worries there. Another idea, if you use LDraw steps in your models
> > to animate, then LPub can output the whole set of steps. So you could
> > just then use those as frames of animation - hey presto, animated
> > sprites....
>
> That sounds FANTASTIC.. just need to work out what LDraw steps are,
> and how that works... searching, searching....
If you have downloaded MLCad or similar, then there will be an "add
step" command you can place in, normally, this would be used to make
build steps - like starting with the initial plates, STEP, adding the
first layer of bricks on those, STEP, second layer, STEP etc.. But you
can also instruct it with commands like SHOW and HIDE (I think).
To use steps for animation, you would break the movable/animatable
parts of your MOC's into subassemblies, then place instances of them
all together in the main assembly. Then copy the instance of a part
you want to move, add a new step, hide the original instance, paste
your new one, and move it slightly (this could be a rotation or
something).
There, afaik, people starting to put together scripting systems and
command line tools to start to do more advanced animation with
interpolation etc for LDraw, but this is still in its infancy.
Danny
--
Danny Staple MBCS
OrionRobots
http://orionrobots.co.uk/blogs/dannystaple
(Full contact details available through website)
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danny staple wrote:
> On 11/07/06, Gabriel McGrath <gabesemail2000-spam@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> LPub uses POV/Megapov, LGEO etc to perform the output steps. • > It allows you to configure stuff like
> lighting settings, camera positioning, how much you want to render
> (all build steps, complete assembly, sub assemblies etc), what format
> to output to (Jpg, png, bmp etc), wether to use LGEO or not, what
> shaing/rendering model to use (I recommend using the lowest to tweak
> camera and most other output settings, then upping when you are
> looking at lighting) and much other stuff.
Yes, had a good play with Lpub last night.
Will use your tip re lowest quality for quick renders :-)
> If you have downloaded MLCad or similar, then there will be an "add
> step" command you can place in, normally, this would be used to make
> build steps - like starting with the initial plates, STEP, adding the
> first layer of bricks on those, STEP, second layer, STEP etc.. But you
> can also instruct it with commands like SHOW and HIDE (I think).
>
> To use steps for animation, you would break the movable/animatable
> parts of your MOC's into subassemblies, then place instances of them
> all together in the main assembly. Then copy the instance of a part
> you want to move, add a new step, hide the original instance, paste
> your new one, and move it slightly (this could be a rotation or
> something).
I will look into the step system, thanks.
Saves me manually "save/render" over & over.
I am *almost* getting used to the LACK of UNDO (arggh)
and thank god I finally found a webpage that explained
how to do rotations. (got a 'rotation helper' too)
Here's my first attempt...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/David_Manning/tease.gif
(note: if asked for a password.. "lugnet")
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/David_Manning/nurses.jpg
(and for reference, the originals)
I don't know how to put a red cross on their chests,
or if such a thing is easily achieved.
Better start looking for some custom ldaw parts.
Any sites in particular good for this?
> There, afaik, people starting to put together scripting systems and
> command line tools to start to do more advanced animation with
> interpolation etc for LDraw, but this is still in its infancy.
>
> Danny
I saw a site with a "walking system" - looks amazing
but I won't need the animation that fine for my game
or it will take me forever to make the #$^$*&$ thing. ;-)
Thanks again, hope you like the pics.
--
NB: swap "spam" for "lugnet" in my email address. :-)
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On 12/07/06, Gabriel McGrath <gabesemail2000-spam@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> I will look into the step system, thanks.
> Saves me manually "save/render" over & over.
What it also means is that if you need to tweak something and
re-render, you cant kick of LPub and then leave it rendering with
little interaction. Being able to save LPub settings is very handy
here...
> I am *almost* getting used to the LACK of UNDO (arggh)
> and thank god I finally found a webpage that explained
> how to do rotations. (got a 'rotation helper' too)
Yes, the lack of undo is a bit nasty. You might also take a look at
LeoCAD, which has recently undergone much more development than MLCad
(which doesnt seem to have been developed at all in about 3/4 years),
but does not natively use the LDraw format. It exports and imports
fine, and builds its peice library from the LDraw library anyway.
> I don't know how to put a red cross on their chests,
> or if such a thing is easily achieved.
peeron.com is a place to look up sets, models and peices. I would
start with looking up ambulance, and hospital, and then seeing which
minifigs the sets listed come with. I turned up
http://peeron.com/inv/sets/6688-1 and
http://peeron.com/inv/sets/606-1.
> Better start looking for some custom ldaw parts.
> Any sites in particular good for this?
Well the unnofficial list is a help, but you might also want to look
into LeoCAD which has a minifig generator, which will allow you to
choose from a selection of heads, hats, torsos, arms, legs and
accessories. There may not be a red cross, but there may be clearly
identifiable medics.
For an example of Lego stop motion (just so you know what people have
done), google for Lego and Camelot for a Lego rendition of a Monty
Python classic.
--
Danny Staple MBCS
OrionRobots
http://orionrobots.co.uk/blogs/dannystaple
(Full contact details available through website)
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danny staple wrote:
> Yes, the lack of undo is a bit nasty. You might also take a look at
> LeoCAD, which has recently undergone much more development than MLCad
> (which doesnt seem to have been developed at all in about 3/4 years),
> but does not natively use the LDraw format. It exports and imports
> fine, and builds its peice library from the LDraw library anyway.
Hmm, I'm not sure I want to re-learn my "cadding"
on a new program, but I'll google "leoCAD" and have a look.
> peeron.com is a place to look up sets, models and peices. I would
> start with looking up ambulance, and hospital, and then seeing which
> minifigs the sets listed come with. I turned up
> http://peeron.com/inv/sets/6688-1 and
> http://peeron.com/inv/sets/606-1.
Oh, I see, that's very clever. Thanks.
> Well the unnofficial list is a help, but you might also want to look
> into LeoCAD which has a minifig generator, which will allow you to
> choose from a selection of heads, hats, torsos, arms, legs and
> accessories. There may not be a red cross, but there may be clearly
> identifiable medics.
Actually, MLCad has a minifig generator,
which I've been using. It doesn't have all the options
as far as different heads, etc.. but I can easily put them in manually.
> For an example of Lego stop motion (just so you know what people have
> done), google for Lego and Camelot for a Lego rendition of a Monty
> Python classic.
Yes, it's great.. isn't it.
Discovered "brick films" a while ago.
Check out the Spiderman2 one if you haven't seen it... big budget brick
film!
thanks again, Danny!
--
NB: swap "spam" for "lugnet" in my email address. :-)
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In lugnet.general, Gabriel McGrath wrote:
> Actually, MLCad has a minifig generator,
> which I've been using. It doesn't have all the options
> as far as different heads, etc.. but I can easily put them in manually.
You can get an updated MLCad.ini file that should support most (all?) of the
official minifig parts from here:
http://www.holly-wood.it/mlcad-en.html
--Travis
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Travis Cobbs wrote:
> You can get an updated MLCad.ini file that should support most (all?) of the
> official minifig parts from here:
>
> http://www.holly-wood.it/mlcad-en.html
>
> --Travis
Thanks for the tip Travis,
I'd already seen that on your site,
but as my MLCad directory doesn't HAVE an "ini file",
I presumed that it didn't use one.
[*Gabriel goes and tries it out]
OH THANKYOU TRAVIS!!!!!!
Now I can make minifigs, holding weapons in one step!
:-)))))
BTW - I've grabbed your 'red bikini' parts to use
for the woman in level 3 of OpWolf - thanks!
Here's a picture of the original using MAME..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/David_Manning/woman_bikini.jpg
(password, if prompted is 'lugnet')
Now, if someone knows a SIMPLE (non-PHD student) way
of automatically animating a minifig to PovRay..
(ie walk from right to left, with camera at 90 degrees to minifig.)
..then you'll truly make my day.
--
NB: swap "spam" for "lugnet" in my email address. :-)
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In lugnet.general, Gabriel McGrath wrote:
> Thanks for the tip Travis,
> I'd already seen that on your site,
> but as my MLCad directory doesn't HAVE an "ini file",
> I presumed that it didn't use one.
You're welcome. It's not my site, though, it's Willy Tschager's. I don't think
his name shows up anywhere on the site, though, for some reason.
--Travis
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In lugnet.general, Gabriel McGrath wrote:
| |
Travis Cobbs wrote:
| |
You can get an updated MLCad.ini file that should support most (all?)
of the official minifig parts from here:
http://www.holly-wood.it/mlcad-en.html
--Travis
|
|
all! and some extra parts you wouldn’t count into minifig parts at first sight
like the 2x2x2 slopes. unfortunately you cannot generate any skeletons or
battle druids ‘cos the arms are hard coded. no drop down box for these two:
http://www.peeron.com/inv/parts/30377
http://www.peeron.com/inv/parts/6265
mr. lachmann?
(snip-snap)
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BTW - I’ve grabbed your ‘red bikini’ parts to use
for the woman in level 3 of OpWolf - thanks!
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I’m glad you like it ;-)
w.
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Willy Tschager wrote:
> all! and some extra parts you wouldn't count into minifig parts at first sight¬
> like the 2x2x2 slopes.
Thanks Willy - your INI file will make my game a LOT easier to build.
:-)
> ¬
>
> > BTW - I've grabbed your 'red bikini' parts to use
> > for the woman in level 3 of OpWolf - thanks!
>
> ¬
> I'm glad you like it ;-)¬
> ¬
Yes, I'll have to upload a pic of the model vs the original
in a week or 2, when it's done.
Gabriel
--
NB: swap "spam" for "lugnet" in my email address. :-)
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