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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Shiri Dori writes:
> What I was wondering is - I was intending to arm my peasants with pitchforks,
> brooms, pickaxes and the like, but then decided against it, since I assumed
> they would be less effective than swords, bows, etc. Is this true? I was too
> lazy to check. ;-)
Actually they are all about equally effective, except for brooms of course,
which you can use to beat a fig into unconsciousness but it takes a long
time. Pitchforks can be used as Tridents and do as much damage as swords but
take two hands. They can be used to disarm opponents. Pickaxes do a little
more damage than swords but also take two hands. Both pickaxes and tridents
may get stuck in an opponent and will slow you down on the following turn as
you try to pull them back out.
> Another thing - my royal army (the Ocean Cubs) is organized in troops -
> halberdiers, swordsmen, archers, spearmen, knights... Is there any way to save
> time and roll only once and then multiply by the number of people in the troop
> for a single cumulative effect, instead of rolling individually for each unit?
Ha ha I wish! We were playing a game about a month ago with the Shogun's
Imperial Army vs. the Mountain Bandits and the imperials were similarly
organized, we kept wishing that we had such a rule. We tried a number of
different ways to handle group rolls at various points during the game, but
none of them really worked out very well.
(I haven't done a write-up for that game yet but you can see pics from it on
Brickshelf at http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=554 .)
> That would surely save time, but I'm not sure if I'd like that, 'coz I might
> roll a 1 for the whole army and that would be depressing. :-)
I feel the same way. About the only thing we tried that made any sense was,
if you have a bunch of the same kind of troop attacking with the same kind of
weapon, make all their Attack Rolls at the same time (for instance, if you
have 12 guys who need to roll a 3 on 1d6 to hit, roll 12d6 and count how many
dice come up 3 or higher). When you've counted how many of them hit, the
defender chooses which of your troops get the good rolls and which ones get
the bad rolls.
> BTW, Mike, are you going to be there?
I'd love to go, but I can't free up enough time from college to drive out from
Los Angeles and back.
- Mike Rayhawk.
--------------------------------------------------
Check out the Official BrikWars Home Page at
http://www.teleport.com/~rayhawks/brikwars.htm
--------------------------------------------------
>
> -Shiri
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Mike Rayhawk writes:
> Actually they are all about equally effective, except for brooms of course,
> which you can use to beat a fig into unconsciousness but it takes a long
> time. Pitchforks can be used as Tridents and do as much damage as swords but
> take two hands. They can be used to disarm opponents. Pickaxes do a little
> more damage than swords but also take two hands. Both pickaxes and tridents
> may get stuck in an opponent and will slow you down on the following turn as
> you try to pull them back out.
So it's not such a bad idea? <sigh> well, too late now - they're all half-
packed... maybe if i have time this week.
> Ha ha I wish! We were playing a game about a month ago with the Shogun's
> Imperial Army vs. the Mountain Bandits and the imperials were similarly
> organized, we kept wishing that we had such a rule. We tried a number of
> different ways to handle group rolls at various points during the game, but
> none of them really worked out very well.
Too bad... I could really use something like that...
> > That would surely save time, but I'm not sure if I'd like that, 'coz I might
> > roll a 1 for the whole army and that would be depressing. :-)
>
> I feel the same way. About the only thing we tried that made any sense was,
> if you have a bunch of the same kind of troop attacking with the same kind of
> weapon, make all their Attack Rolls at the same time (for instance, if you
> have 12 guys who need to roll a 3 on 1d6 to hit, roll 12d6 and count how many
> dice come up 3 or higher). When you've counted how many of them hit, the
> defender chooses which of your troops get the good rolls and which ones get
> the bad rolls.
Yeah, that makes sense.
> > BTW, Mike, are you going to be there?
>
> I'd love to go, but I can't free up enough time from college to drive out from
> Los Angeles and back.
LOL! Too bad...
-Shiri
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Mike Rayhawk writes:
> Ha ha I wish! We were playing a game about a month ago with the Shogun's
> Imperial Army vs. the Mountain Bandits and the imperials were similarly
> organized, we kept wishing that we had such a rule. We tried a number of
> different ways to handle group rolls at various points during the game, but
> none of them really worked out very well.
If you're interested, I could use a little trick demonstrated in a game a
friend from college wrote which made a trivial way to utilize a normal
distribution curve to generate results from mass dice rolling. Of course you
still come up against the issue indicated below:
> I feel the same way. About the only thing we tried that made any sense was,
> if you have a bunch of the same kind of troop attacking with the same kind of
> weapon, make all their Attack Rolls at the same time (for instance, if you
> have 12 guys who need to roll a 3 on 1d6 to hit, roll 12d6 and count how many
> dice come up 3 or higher). When you've counted how many of them hit, the
> defender chooses which of your troops get the good rolls and which ones get
> the bad rolls.
This of course gives an advantage to the defender. What might be more fair is
to let each player allocate half of the hits. This gives the players equal
incentive to usethe shortcut. In the "defender allocates all the hits" method,
I'd let the attacker chose to exclude any critical rolls, and in the 50-50
split, I'd allow either player to force specific rolls to be individually
made. What this effectively means is that if there is a line of attackers
matched to a line of defenders, but there are one or two defenders in very
critical positions, these will be individually rolled for (in a "defender
choses", these guys obviously won't be hit unless the attacker scores almost
all hits, and in the 50-50 split, they would almost always be hit - neither
result is good).
Of course, another good one to apply is the "law of averages". If the attacker
is attacking at a huge advantage such that the expected result (% chance to
hit * number of attacks) is significantly greater than the number of defenders
(assuming a "one hit kills" system), then just assume all the defenders are
killed (I got so annoyed at one D&D player who wanted me to roll a to hit for
every bullet from a machine gun, the expected damage was something like 100
times his hit points, I wanted to just roll a d100 and if I got a 00, he
lived).
Frank
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Shiri Dori writes:
> > Actually they are all about equally effective, except for brooms of course,
> > which you can use to beat a fig into unconsciousness but it takes a long
> > time. Pitchforks can be used as Tridents and do as much damage as swords but
> > take two hands. They can be used to disarm opponents. Pickaxes do a little
> > more damage than swords but also take two hands. Both pickaxes and tridents
> > may get stuck in an opponent and will slow you down on the following turn as
> > you try to pull them back out.
What I forgot to say is, what is going to make them less effective is the fact
that they are in the hands of peasants rather than soldiers. Peasants are
kind of inept.
> So it's not such a bad idea? <sigh> well, too late now - they're all half-
> packed... maybe if i have time this week.
Of course, having fewer different kinds of weapons to keep track of never
hurts. When you have to keep looking up stats for every different kind the
game can start to bog down. When you only have a couple you can just remember
them all and everything goes a lot more smoothly.
> > I'd love to go, but I can't free up enough time from college to drive
> > out from Los Angeles and back.
>
> LOL! Too bad...
You laugh, but I'd do it if I had a spare week - I used to commute between New
York and Portland three or four times a year, it's a great drive and I have a
lot of friends on the east coast I'd like to drop in on unexpectedly.
- Mike Rayhawk.
--------------------------------------------------
Check out the Official BrikWars Home Page at
http://www.teleport.com/~rayhawks/brikwars.htm
--------------------------------------------------
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Frank Filz writes:
> This of course gives an advantage to the defender.
Of course, but it's the attacker's choice whether to use the group roll or
not. For any attacks that were especially important, he would still choose to
make the rolls individually. He would only choose to use the group roll where
it didn't particularly matter to him which of the targets got hit.
> What might be more fair is
> to let each player allocate half of the hits. This gives the players equal
> incentive to usethe shortcut. In the "defender allocates all the hits" method,
> I'd let the attacker chose to exclude any critical rolls, and in the 50-50
> split, I'd allow either player to force specific rolls to be individually
> made.
This would be more fair but starts to get a little too complicated.
> What this effectively means is that if there is a line of attackers
> matched to a line of defenders, but there are one or two defenders in very
> critical positions, these will be individually rolled for (in a "defender
> choses", these guys obviously won't be hit unless the attacker scores almost
> all hits, and in the 50-50 split, they would almost always be hit - neither
> result is good).
Exactly. The important rolls are all handled first and individually, and then
the rest can be done as a group.
> Of course, another good one to apply is the "law of averages". If the attacker
> is attacking at a huge advantage such that the expected result (% chance to
> hit * number of attacks) is significantly greater than the number of defenders
> (assuming a "one hit kills" system), then just assume all the defenders are
> killed.
That would really have to be a voluntary decision from the defender. We did
that a lot of times during that same game, because we were really lazy that
day and never wanted to calculate damage. Especially when the tower fell over
and crushed all the imperial cavalry, the defending player just conceded that
they were dead because it would have been silly to calculate the damage
(something like mass of tower times stories dropped vs. trooper armor).
> (I got so annoyed at one D&D player who wanted me to roll a to hit for
> every bullet from a machine gun, the expected damage was something like 100
> times his hit points, I wanted to just roll a d100 and if I got a 00, he
> lived).
D&D has machine guns now?
- Mike Rayhawk.
--------------------------------------------------
Check out the Official BrikWars Home Page at
http://www.teleport.com/~rayhawks/brikwars.htm
--------------------------------------------------
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Mike Rayhawk writes:
> In lugnet.fun.gaming, Shiri Dori writes:
> > > Actually they are all about equally effective, except for brooms of course,
> > > which you can use to beat a fig into unconsciousness but it takes a long
> > > time. Pitchforks can be used as Tridents and do as much damage as swords • but
> > > take two hands. They can be used to disarm opponents. Pickaxes do a little
> > > more damage than swords but also take two hands. Both pickaxes and tridents
> > > may get stuck in an opponent and will slow you down on the following turn as
> > > you try to pull them back out.
>
> What I forgot to say is, what is going to make them less effective is the fact
> that they are in the hands of peasants rather than soldiers. Peasants are
> kind of inept.
How would that play into the game?
> > So it's not such a bad idea? <sigh> well, too late now - they're all half-
> > packed... maybe if i have time this week.
>
> Of course, having fewer different kinds of weapons to keep track of never
> hurts. When you have to keep looking up stats for every different kind the
> game can start to bog down. When you only have a couple you can just remember
> them all and everything goes a lot more smoothly.
Yeah, it's also easier to make sure I get it all back. :-)
> > > I'd love to go, but I can't free up enough time from college to drive
> > > out from Los Angeles and back.
> >
> > LOL! Too bad...
>
> You laugh, but I'd do it if I had a spare week - I used to commute between New
> York and Portland three or four times a year, it's a great drive and I have a
> lot of friends on the east coast I'd like to drop in on unexpectedly.
Phew! How long would it take you to drive one way? My family and I barely
survived a drive across Germany, I doubt we could manage going across the US.
(But I guess when you're alone, it's easier to not fight over every single
thing... ;-)
-Shiri
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Mike Rayhawk writes:
> > (I got so annoyed at one D&D player who wanted me to roll a to hit for
> > every bullet from a machine gun, the expected damage was something like 100
> > times his hit points, I wanted to just roll a d100 and if I got a 00, he
> > lived).
>
> D&D has machine guns now?
Well, not really (but they did publish stats for them in The Dragon once, ever
read "Monty Haul and the German High Command"?), but hey, that was freshmen
year in college, and I was still a power gamer (that was also almost 20 years
ago...)
Frank
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Shiri Dori writes:
> Phew! How long would it take you to drive one way? My family and I barely
> survived a drive across Germany, I doubt we could manage going across the US.
> (But I guess when you're alone, it's easier to not fight over every single
> thing... ;-)
We did a lot of driving when I was young. We took two 5-6 week vacations
driving across the US (though the first I was a little too young to remember
much). We also took 5-6 weeks driving around Europe. We (me and my sisters)
didn't fight too much, but then that was (mostly) before the enlightened days
of seatbelts (my dad did do something to the front seatbelts in the VW
Sqaureback we took delivery of in Europe for that trip to keep the seatbelt
buzzer from going off) so we were able to move about and play on the floor
(van) or back of the car (VW). I can attest that lying on the floor of a van
behind the drivers seat is a relatively safe place to be in an emergency stop.
The only thing which happened to me when we had an accident on the 2nd cross
country trip is that my younger sister landed on me when she fell off the
seat, I went nowhere (of course had the van rolled, things would have been
worse). We also took numerous shorter trips. On all of these trips, each kid
had their own toys and books (I forget which trip it was for that my parents
made car toy boxes by taking a dishpan and making a nice cover for it with a
hole for a cup - usually to hold a cup of crayons or whatever). We were also
involved in the trip planning (on every major trip, each person got to chose
one sight they absolutely wanted to see).
Driving time across the US is on the order of 50 hours (approximately 3000
miles LA-NYC).
Frank
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FUT .o-t.fun
In lugnet.fun.gaming, Frank Filz writes:
> In lugnet.fun.gaming, Shiri Dori writes:
> > My family and I barely
> > survived a drive across Germany, I doubt we could manage going across the US.
> > (But I guess when you're alone, it's easier to not fight over every single
> > thing... ;-)
>
> We did a lot of driving when I was young. We took two 5-6 week vacations
> driving across the US (though the first I was a little too young to remember
> much). We also took 5-6 weeks driving around Europe. We (me and my sisters)
> didn't fight too much, but then that was (mostly) before the enlightened days
> of seatbelts
<snip>
Oh, yeah, when I was 4 we drove from Kansas to FL, my older sisters and I were
constantly playing in the baggage (the back seats folded into it so we had
lots of space). That was a good trip, definitely.
Somehow, when I was 13 and my younger sis, 7, driving from Germany (Frankfurt)
to France (Nice <sp>) was much less enjoyable. She and I fight waaaaaay too
much when cramped in small spaces. Putting suitcases beween us did NOT help,
believe me - made it worse. <grin - I still remember how she pinched me from
behind the suitcase. :-) >
-Shiri
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Shiri Dori writes:
> > What I forgot to say is, what is going to make them less effective is the
> > fact that they are in the hands of peasants rather than soldiers. Peasants
> > are kind of inept.
>
> How would that play into the game?
If you are playing with the rules for different troop types, peasants are
bought as Normal People (chapter 8, section 1.1), while soldiers are bought as
Troopers (chapter 7, section 1.1). Neither of these chapters are up in HTML
yet but you can still pick up the text versions. Of course you can just buy
all your minifigs as Troopers and save yourself a lot of trouble.
> Phew! How long would it take you to drive one way? My family and I barely
> survived a drive across Germany, I doubt we could manage going across the US.
> (But I guess when you're alone, it's easier to not fight over every single
> thing... ;-)
Fastest we ever did it was 3000 miles in 27 hours with only two speeding
tickets. We had to stop doing that when states started making the speeding
laws tougher and they started throwing one or both of us in jail every time
they caught us doing over 100mph. Nowadays we usually make it around 40-45
hours when we don't make detours to waste time in Vegas, Sturgis, or Detroit.
- Mike Rayhawk.
--------------------------------------------------
Check out the Official BrikWars Home Page at
http://www.teleport.com/~rayhawks/brikwars.htm
--------------------------------------------------
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Frank Filz writes:
> Well, not really (but they did publish stats for them in The Dragon once, ever
> read "Monty Haul and the German High Command"?), but hey, that was freshmen
> year in college, and I was still a power gamer (that was also almost 20 years
> ago...)
You dated yourself by calling it "The Dragon". Heh. They dropped the "The"
quite some time ago.
eric
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"Mike Rayhawk" <rayhawk@artcenter.edu> wrote:
> In lugnet.fun.gaming, Shiri Dori writes:
> > > Actually they are all about equally effective, except for brooms of course,
> > > which you can use to beat a fig into unconsciousness but it takes a long
> > > time. Pitchforks can be used as Tridents and do as much damage as swords but
> > > take two hands. They can be used to disarm opponents. Pickaxes do a little
> > > more damage than swords but also take two hands. Both pickaxes and tridents
> > > may get stuck in an opponent and will slow you down on the following turn as
> > > you try to pull them back out.
>
> What I forgot to say is, what is going to make them less effective is the fact
> that they are in the hands of peasants rather than soldiers. Peasants are
> kind of inept.
...but lots of fun as they flail randomly and get mowed down by nearly-as-inept first rank
soldiers :-)
> > So it's not such a bad idea? <sigh> well, too late now - they're all half-
> > packed... maybe if i have time this week.
>
> Of course, having fewer different kinds of weapons to keep track of never
> hurts. When you have to keep looking up stats for every different kind the
> game can start to bog down. When you only have a couple you can just remember
> them all and everything goes a lot more smoothly.
...Hmmmm that sounds like a great idea for a slimmed down game!!! Oh wait! I already did
that on MiniFig Death! http://wildlink.com/lego/minifigdeath :-)
> > > I'd love to go, but I can't free up enough time from college to drive
> > > out from Los Angeles and back.
> >
> > LOL! Too bad...
>
> You laugh, but I'd do it if I had a spare week - I used to commute between New
> York and Portland three or four times a year, it's a great drive and I have a
> lot of friends on the east coast I'd like to drop in on unexpectedly.
...You are letting college get in the way of a good time??? :-)
...you can go back to ignoring me now...
wubwub
stephen f roberts
wamalug guy (http://wamalug.org)
Jain's Guide (http://wildlink.com/lego/jain)
Visit the wildlink (http://wildlink.com)
lugnet #160
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