 | | Color change: Let's go straight to the CEO!
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About a year has passed since we learned of TLG's terrible decision to "improve" the gray, dark gray, and brown colors. Our initial (and ongoing) firestorm was unsuccessful at reversing the change, and with Jake's recent "locked-color" post (URL), (...) (19 years ago, 25-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX) !!
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Hello! (...) I would sign such a letter. My skills at English, however, are not good enough to write it, though. Let alone my skills at Danish... Bye Jojo (19 years ago, 25-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Does it NEED to be in Danish? English, like it or not, is the language of business, and the CEO of a company as large as LEGO, even one as insular as LEGO is, ought to be able to read, speak, and write English at least fairly fluently. That (...) (19 years ago, 25-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) FYI, In the last six months, I've yet to come across any of my colleagues to who don't know and understand the AFOL concern. (...) I'm not sure how far this will get you, but I'll tell you what... if you're able to pull something like this (...) (19 years ago, 25-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX) !!
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(...) I have a suggestion for TLG: If they've realized that the colour change decision was a poor one (and they don't really want to admit it), they could reverse this decision without letting us know. Just suppose that the RGB colour values for the (...) (19 years ago, 25-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) That would be a GOOD surprise. :) But just change it directly back to the old grey - no need for a gradual change. -Bryan (19 years ago, 25-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, FTX)
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(...) English speaking cross-overs from Germany and Japan have implied the reaction was the same in their own language Lego forems as it was here. How much more of the globe wold you like? I would hope he could be hit with a letter in every language (...) (19 years ago, 25-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, FTX)
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Oh I'd defintely sign this petition, I am part of this "younger" group LEGO thought they'd reach out to with the new colors, but boy has it put me off! With this the only sets I like to buy are tyhose w/out Lt & Dk Stone, and Brown. The only "Grays" (...) (19 years ago, 25-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) has anyone ever thought that TLG could simply reintroduce the original grey? could be an easier solution. I like a lot of the new colors, but I just don't like the new greys. I would get involved in something like this, my time is very limited (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) If the community is dead set on giving me a migraine over the color issue bringing it up time and time again, do me a favor and listen to Jake. Write a petition and get it signed at brick events [1]. I would be more than willing to put my name (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general) !
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(...) Amen, and ditto to that! And that is all I have to say. (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) This seems a very valid argument to me indeed. (...) Taking the risk of repeating myself too often, that would be, indeed, the only necessary but yet sufficient move from TLC that would make me believe that they are, sincerely, concerned with (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) This is not only a valuable achievement, but also a valuable information. Thank You! (...) With the upcoming AFOL event in Frechen in focus, I'll do my best to get something (i.e. list of signatures) done right there. Give my lack of (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) OK. If someone manages to write up a petition, I'll see to have it translated in German for the next larger AFOL event over here (Frechen, January 8th and 9th), and round up some people to get it signed (Which should not be a problem at all, (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) True, but new grey is locked. I suppose you could argue that we do not want to change clours, we want to reintroduce old ones. New grey would still be a core colour, it just wouldn't be used in any sets. (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I can do the same thing for The Netherlands. I'm sure we'll get a lot of signatures over here... When should the signatures be collected? Since we have our next event end of february. Should the signatures be handwritten? Otherwise we could (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color)
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Hello! (...) I think any letters should be on paper, signatures handwritten. The letter itself doesn't need to be handwritten :-) Bye Jojo (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color)
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(...) Fine with me, it just makes the collecting of the signatures a lot more complicated ;-) Saskia (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color)
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(...) While I agree that the color change was a bad decision for Lego to have made, I'm almost even MORE nervous about them changing back. I don't want to see an already struggling TLC put millions into a reverse change, which probably wouldn't (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color)
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Hey all, I would be willing to take a running jump at the letter. I've already composed one which I've yet to send to the company about this very issue, but it's been sitting on my hard drive collecting dust for a couple of reasons. First of all, I (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color)
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(...) I agree with the everyone sending out a letter instead of a few letters with many signatures. They open one letter, read it, notice many names and go on with their meeting. However, many letters need many hands to open, read the contents and (...) (19 years ago, 26-Nov-04, to lugnet.color)
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(...) And you have evidence from inside the company that the net result of all the pros and cons of this change shows that this decision was a poor one? KDJ ___...___ LUGNETer #203, Ontario, Canada (19 years ago, 27-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Don't confuse not getting everything you want and them not being concerned with you. It's impossible to please everyone (including themselves), so they have to make tough decisions. It doesn't mean they're not concerned with the people those (...) (19 years ago, 27-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) If you insist on going at this, why don't you do a petition from a more representative group of LEGO's customers, namely parents? (And they can sign on behalf of their children if you want, as you probably don't want to be "using" children for (...) (19 years ago, 27-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Hi there, I understand this situation... love it or hate it... the colours I'd like changed back, light/dark grey and brown, also minifigs to be as they are known and loved 'yellow'. For me that represented something different, no-one is (...) (19 years ago, 28-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Has it been a year already? wow. I've been away for a long time. I totally avoided the color battle because I didn't want to get upset. Just recently, I returned to buying large amounts of LEGO elements for those "spring cleaning" boxes. I (...) (19 years ago, 28-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Actually, The yellow minifig is not dead. I recall Jake mentioning at a Brickfest convention that the flesh-colored minifigs are only done when there's a likeness to a person, either in real-life or as an actor/person in a licensed product. (...) (19 years ago, 29-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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If you need the letter translated into danish I'll be willing to help you out. Just email it to me, ok? (19 years ago, 29-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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Hi Jake, There was the suggestion of a petition to the company and someone mentioned petitioning parents. One thing that came to my mind is trying to collect signatures at or around the Legoland theme parks and Lego retail stores. I imagine that (...) (19 years ago, 29-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I could be wrong but it was my understanding (as a former petitioner for the Libertarian Party) that if you are on public property, permission is not required. However, you can be asked to leave if you are disruptive (block pedestrian flow, (...) (19 years ago, 29-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I also believe that is correct. I'm not sure that most malls are actually public property though. Although the "public" is invited to shop there, it is still a private business, and you may be asked to leave unless you had permission from the (...) (19 years ago, 29-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I see. Well, it's something we should look into but that all sounds about right. And I think it's definitely important to conduct the survey/petition as professionally and unobtrusively as possible. (...) Yes. We would have to be clear to TLC (...) (19 years ago, 29-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) That's always been my understanding as well. Technically they can street anyone they wish (although it can get tricky without a defensible reason that doesn't appear discriminatory). Anyhow, in a mall you would probably need permission to set (...) (19 years ago, 29-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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| | Color change: **CEO Draft Letter**
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I've drafted a letter, and had my wife review for grammar, context and presentation. By way of credentials, my wife has worked as both a full time external communications, and internal executive communications writer in a Fortune 100 company for (...) (19 years ago, 30-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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Hi Scott, Out of curiousity, I then ask, why is, for example, the engineer from 'Spiderman's train rescue': (URL) Flesh coloured? Is he a specific character like say, Peter Parker or Harry Potter? Samarth SNIP (...) (19 years ago, 30-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) I don't know specifically, but I would assume (note the word "assume") that since the entire Spider-man line is licensed, that the licensing body would have a say in the design, or the fact that so many licensed figures (Mary Jane, Peter (...) (19 years ago, 30-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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In lugnet.color, Mark Chan wrote: <snip> (...) I don't think TLC ever made a promise like this. I remember seeing in some catalogs from the '80s that TLC promoted the fact the most elements were interchangeable with one another, and that all the (...) (19 years ago, 30-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Have you ever watched a child (10 and under) play with LEGO? Quite often the brick size and shape is way more important than the colour. Take a look at the "kid creations" in the LEGO Magazine. Things are made of all different colours put (...) (19 years ago, 30-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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Thanks for the feedback. (...) Good Point. I argued that internally as well, and thought that the promise on color consistency was a stretch (at best) so it's good to see some opinions that support that counter-point of view. Please also see my (...) (19 years ago, 30-Nov-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) There is a factual error here. Dark grey and brown have not been around for 20 years. You probably want to annex the letter with a detailed description of which colours have changed, with a photo, or even real parts, as an example if you want. (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Actually, I 100% agree with you there (and did before I posted) - and the LEGO magazines I've seen for 10+ yrs proves your point. I agree that brick size and shape are MUCH more important (and hinted at that in the letter, so it didn't appear (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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OK Folks, I know I made a fuss about still whining about the color change after a year, but you folks are now NOT whining, your actually doing something. Yes, I would support and sign that letter. Although I rarely build with gray parts, I do use a (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Well, they've been around for MORE than 20 years (1977 for dark grey and 1974/77 for brown, if you count the maxifig hair which probably wasn't ABS). So, yeah, maybe saying "more than 20 years" or "more than 25 years" (nice round number). (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Great points. Facts=Good. Pictures=best way to represent color facts. Actual parts are even better than pictures. We'll have to think of some way to incorporate your idea above. (Kind of like "Exhibit #1" at a court trial - I like it) I think (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) This is a GREAT suggestion. I would part with a few new gray plates and a couple of 1x2 "old gray" plates, to make the point. I would add, why not put in some pics of various MOCS that have been displayed at shows, and on the WEB, that make (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Haha that reminds me - the only 2004+ set I have is 4492 MINI Star Destroyer. It's sitting here in the original plastic container, minus all the non-bley pieces. I'd be happy to send this back to TLC with a letter to help prove our point! (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Really? What sets had the dark grey? And yeah, I forgot about the maxifig hair for brown (or minifig tools, etc.). I was thinking of largely common elements when I considered when a colour first "appeared". From my recollection neither dark (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) First set to use dark grey (according to Peeron) is 590 Engine Co. #9 (1977): (URL) the Brickshelf scan, it does indeed look like they're dark grey. For brown, I see push-brooms in 1978: (URL) started showing up in "regular" pieces much later. (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Yeah. If you try the AFOL approach, then you're into spending a lot of effort convincing people (who may already be convinced) that AFOLs matter, beforrrre you ever get to the colour issue. It's like tackling 2 challenges at once, and the (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) That's bringin' out the really big guns! ;] (...) When I said material, I was thinking more generically, to include not only the actual plastic material, but manufacturing process tweaks as well. I'm pretty sure the main material changed at (...) (19 years ago, 1-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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In lugnet.color, Mark Chan wrote: Be honest about what affects you and cut the stuff about kids. Kids don't care too much about colours, and even though I love Lego more than the average person, I can't conceive of using it to teach my daughter (...) (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Wow! That may not be the most eloquent, but it sure gets the point across. I'm tempted to change all instances of "AFOL" above to "me/I" and print that out and send it in! -Bryan (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Leave the parent and kid letters up to the parents and kids. (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) TLC is what it is today (for better and worse) by having more than just profit as a guiding principle. I am sure they made the change because they seriously believed it was an improvement, and I don't see how the change conflicts with their (...) (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Your comments above are excellent. Short, concise, and sums it up. I like 4 through 6 the best. #3 is probably the least convincing statement of the 6 IMO, but is still true. If we wrap it around why "Lego should care" about AFOL (some (...) (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) as making very late appearances... (...) Yeah, the earliest grey bricks I got were in classic space set 894 Tracking Station in 1979 (a 2x4 and a bunch of 1x1,2,3). (...) Yup! Must've been bored! ;] Thanx, KDJ ___...___ LUGNETer #203, Ontario, (...) (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) I didn't say profit was their only principle, I said it was a primary one. A company doesn't make changes just because they think it's an improvement. That improvement has to cut costs or increase revenue (via increased customer satisfaction (...) (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Parents (and, in theory, kids) are also on LUGNET. Nothing at all prevents an AFOL from writing a letter that emphasizes the parental perspective more than the AFOL perspective (if at all). An AFOL-parent has the advantage that they can be (...) (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Oops, wrong link... (URL) Yeah, grey *brick* was really uncommon until around 1984 when the castle (...) Cross between bored and curious I guess :) Once I realized how to do it rather quickly, it was pretty easy... Though admittedly writing a (...) (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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By focusing on general sentiments of disappointment and broken promises, the (f)actual disadvantages of the color change were left out. Please make clear in the letter, that on a very practical level there are many ways in which both AFOLS *and* TLG (...) (19 years ago, 2-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Hey Dave, Peeron is wrong on some of the 60's dates for grey. In 1963 (Christmas 1962 to be accurate) grey plates in 1x1, 1x2, 2x2, 2x3, 2x4 and strange as it may seem 8x11 came into production. These early ones were Cellulose Acetate. They (...) (19 years ago, 3-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) GREAT post! You sure summarized pretty well my feelings. Well said! Best regards, Paulo-Renato (19 years ago, 3-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) I do think that #3 is an important issue. Might be convinging as well. Maybe if you add that that 'nightmare' is due to the similarity of the colors (and you have to compare them consistently if you don't wanna mix them up), the more room/bins (...) (19 years ago, 3-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Hey Scott, Everthing you wrote is correct except for this: (...) If you look at the Snowspeeder set you will also see that Luke and Dack are yellow. Thats because the Snowspeeder was in the last wave of sets to have yellow minifigs - along (...) (19 years ago, 3-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general, FTX)
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(...) Normal grey bricks like 2x2, 2x3, and 2x4 were available in abundance in 1960/61 in expansion sets like 218, 219 and 220. Also, as far as I know, grey plates were used in 1957 in set 323, Train. Arne, Copenhagen (19 years ago, 3-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Ooo, do you have inventories for these sets? (hint, hint!) Stuff that's pre-70's in Peeron isn't terribly complete... (even pre-80's is sketchy for some stuff) Actually, I guess Peeron even accepts "partial" inventories if you know a few (...) (19 years ago, 3-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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(...) Hello Arne, I have to politely disagree with you. If what I am thinking is correct, you are seeing what appears to be grey parts in the #218 (2x4 bricks), #219 (2x3 bricks), #220 (2x2 bricks), #221 (1x2 bricks), #222 (1x1 bricks) #223 (1x1 (...) (19 years ago, 4-Dec-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.lego, lugnet.general)
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