Subject:
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Re: Lego & BHC
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:50:59 GMT
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Original-From:
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Jim Choate <ravage@einsteinSAYNOTOSPAM.ssz.com>
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Viewed:
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1501 times
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Hi Jerry,
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Jerry Kalpin wrote:
> I am a Mechanical Engineer and have been struggling with my latest LEGO
> project for several weeks. It boils down to ...trying over and over again
> to get a 'better result' using a different combination of pieces. So much
> of this depends on being able to see.
I can't disgree stongly enough on this. I call this 'sighted bias'. Since
you've clearly never been blind or worked with the blind then I'd expect
nothing else but this sort of view. The sighted live their whole lives
handicapped in this way with regard to imagination. It's a perfect example
of the 'if all you know is a nail...'.
Now stop here, and think about how that 'handicapped' label made you feel.
The blind feel the same way when others use it. My suggestion, forget
about labels and boxes, focus on the problem.
> I cannot imagine how I would do it if I were blind.
I think you answered your own question. I'm blind in one eye as a result
of a childhood accident. As part of that experience I spent six weeks with
both eyes patched except for brief moments when medication needed to be
applied or the progress of the surgery needed to be gauged. It -seems-
like a daunting task. I will say that during that experience I didn't
stop building stuff, though I did have to get somebody else to do the
soldering ;)
It's doable, it's just that the current mind-set and technology are in
such a archaic state.
> But in the beginning I would start by using a reduced set of parts and
> pre-building a project several ways yourself in order to provide better
> assistance.
A good mechanical approach to describing the parts should not be hobbled
by a reduced parts count. This limits the developers and that's anathema
to my view of the world.
The point isn't to assist, it is to liberate the individual. We want to
avoid the need of adding an 'assistant' to the mix. That approach is
self-defeating in several ways. Primarily in denegrating the blind and
treating them as individuals who can't support themselves. Whatever the
solution turns out to be it should not require a second person.
> You could describe a device as 'having wheels' that are 'driven' with the front
> ones solid shaft and the rear ones connected by a 'differential' ...yet, how
> would you describe 'differential' function to a non-sighted person.
With their hands. I'm not asking how to describe basic mechanical devices. In
general there is nothing wrong with a blind persons mind or their ability
to imagine spacial arrangements. It's critical to a variety of things they
do, such as using a cane to walk or getting the fork in their mouth. I
assume a developer has already learned those through 'hands-on' learning.
Hell, half the times I've had to work on my car it's done by feel not
sight. And I can't guess how many times I've had to fix electronics
cabling and such by feel, those racks get mighty tight when they're full
of equipment.
I'm asking how one might do the following:
- Identify the individual Lego parts.
What does that mean? It means we first familiarize the developer with
the parts they will work with and they learn how to label them uniquely
with respect to size and shape.
This is important so that a blind developer can compare the parts list
with their know parts inventory. It must also be usefull for sighted
or else there is no 'market efficiency' to drive acceptance.
My inclination is to use the parts identification that we use now with
regard to the images in the Lego project books. I'm just trying to
figure out if it's fine or needs extending.
- Describe their mechanical arrangement in space which means position and
orientation. It's rather neat here in that assymmetric parts provide
their own orientation information and symmetric don't have the problem.
I'd imagine we'd start with the concept of a Cartesian 'box' and label
a 'well known' corner as (0,0,0). And then define a orientation of that
axis with respect to the 'viewer' (eg 'x+' is to the R, 'y+' is up, and
'z+' is toward the viewer. An individual robot would be build of modules
that were themselves described within sub-boxes. And then the arrangement
of the sub-boxes within a 'master box'.
NOTE: If this really is virgin ground then any IP related to this work
will be turned over to the public domain. I, anyone working on this
project, and Open Forge, LLC will make no claims to it.
> Is LEGO Robotics really a good idea?
I'd say your response means a resounding 'Yes'.
Take care and thanks for the input. Larry Wayland and I have been working
on an article related to this topic and I've got some ideas on how to
flesh it out on the technical side now. Unless you object I'd like to list
you in the 'thanks to' section. Ok?
-- --
Open Forge, LLC 24/365 Onsite Support for PCs, Networks, & Game Consoles
512-695-4126 (Austin, Tx.) help@open-forge.com irc.open-forge.com
Hangar 18 Open Source Distributed Computing Using Plan 9 & Linux
512-451-7087 http://open-forge.org/hangar18 irc.open-forge.org
James Choate 512-451-7087 ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Lego & BHC
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| (...) again (...) much (...) I have to agree with Jim on this one. When I was a kid, there was a blind (from birth) kid who lived down the street who had more legos then than I do now. If it was the first time building a model, he would open the box (...) (21 years ago, 27-Jan-04, to lugnet.robotics)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Lego & BHC
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| (...) James, to begin with, you would get a much better response if you post this as a unique thread (start a new thread). I am a Mechanical Engineer and have been struggling with my latest LEGO project for several weeks. It boils down to ...trying (...) (21 years ago, 27-Jan-04, to lugnet.robotics)
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