Subject:
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Re: Help with a few words - kinda urgent
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.fun
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Date:
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Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:57:31 GMT
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Viewed:
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404 times
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Yo!
I'm still up too.. churning away on some image and web work.
Hey, cool - glad I could be of some assistance.
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Shiri Dori writes:
> Hi Kevin!
>
> Since it's 3 AM and I can't sleep, I might as well reply to your message.
> :-) Thanks, first off, for going over this, it's good to get feedback. Here
> are some whys/why nots for the word choices...
> > > When you’re sad
> > > You go to the beach,
> > > That’s why the sea is salty
> > > And it’s sad
> > > That you can return equipment,
> > > But not longing (i.e. missing someone)...
> >
> > I'd replace "equipment" with "things" or "objects"
> > I might even swap "emotion" for "longing" - but that's just a wild guess.
>
> Hmmm, the reference is to equipment you rent - inferred as surfing
> equipment, but that's not so obvious in English, huh. You can give it back,
> but you can't return the longings to the person you lost. Maybe I should
> plug in "rented equipment" instead...
Ah! I see - I didn't get the inference - lost in the translation I suppose :)
Hmmm.. perhaps;
And it's sad
That you can return a rented surfboard,
But not that longing feeling...
You mention below that you're not focused on cadence, more on accuracy, so
while this bit loses the previous rhythm but flows nicely within itself, I'm
running the huge risk of getting waaaay off target translation-wise.. so with
that in mind I should stop right here.. think I'm gonna? Hah, nope! :D
>
> > > Then it’s even more –
> > > Even more nice [nicer]…
> >
> > Again, don't know the melody cadence or what-have-you, but at a guess I might
> > be tempted to chuck in "better" or something in place of "more nice".. maybe
> > even a quick-speak "even better".
>
> The problem here is exactly that, you're right, I was debating that myself.
> The reason I left "more nice" even though it's grammatically incorrect is
> the fact that the two words "even more" repeat, in the song. Now, my
> friend's not fluent in Hebrew, but she knows a bit and I wonder if she would
> recognize words here and there. I'm trying to stay as faithful to the
> original as possible, since I don't care about the rhyme or rhythm here
> (she's getting the songs themselves), I want her to understand the meaning,
> but in case she tries to learn more hebrew through these songs I owuld want
> the words to be right!! ;-) Does that make sense?
Ummmm, yeah, I think I follow. Better to learn the right way than to learn the
wrong way.
> > > Chorus:
> > > Dream [on]
> > > Dream [on]…
> > > And leave me room to hug you in the dream
> > > And leave me room to hug you in the dream
> > > And leave me room to hug you -
> > > In the dream.
> >
> > hmmmm.. maybe "hold you" instead of "hug you".. but depends on the context of
> > the song.
>
> The authors didn't translate the lyrics, only the name, and it *is* called
> "Hold me in Your Dreams". But I think it loses part of the meaning in that
> version. The guy(s - it's a band) are basically asking, really gently and
> more like a friend than a lover - just for a hug, the direct translation of
> the line is "leave me room to hug you in the dream" which, IMO, ends up
> different than "hold me in your dreams". The latter asks her to hug him (the
> song is written from a male to a female, but that gets lost in the
> translation), while the former is sorta asking permission to hug her.
> Y'know? Gentler and a lot more friend-oriented. Which is, IMHO, the way the
> song is geared.
Fair enough; one of those translation-filter-issues.
Random Trivia Moment - (brain-spark) - an artist (whose name escapes me at the
moment) has pretty much made his entire CV of work based on Translation and
its effect on ideas, thoughts, words, images, and so on. Studied under him
briefly at ACAD - you'd think I'd remember his name..
Back to your regularly scheduled post..
>
> > > When she left,
> > > A rakefet [flower] grew,
> >
> > Perhaps "blossom"? or if it's gotta have 3 syllables, perhaps "pretty bloom"?
> > (reminder - see very top of post! :)
>
> Yes! Great idea. Thanks, I'll take blossomed for 2 cents. ;-) Perfect, thanks.
You're very welcome.
>
> BTW, Rakefet is the flower named Cyclamen in English, so I discovered
> (thanks Matt, King of Citing Stuff ;-). What a revolting name for one of the
> most beautiful, alluring, romantic flowers I've ever seen. Rakefet is so
> much better of a name! I'm leaving it there. ;-)
>
> > > And a stream passed through the woods…
> > > An amazing fairy
> >
> > "An amazing angel" might be better - especially considering line 1 of the
> > next stanza.
>
> Actually, that *doesn't* fit in this case. The author used two different
> words for angel and fairy, and each has the same, distinct meaning in
> English. I'm considering "lovely" or alternatively "alluring" instead of
> "amazing" though, and neither of the three fits exactly for "maksima". It's
> a kind of combo of those three.
Again, fair enough. I could probably chuck word choices into the pot for ages
and be not-quite-on-the-mark all the way through. Better to consult a heb/eng
dictionary if you can find it, or someone who actually knows both languages.
Oh what the heck why should I let ignorance stop me.. :)
angel/fairy .. nymph? pixie? slyphid?
lovely/alluring/amazing .. elegant? enticing? wondrous?
> > > She wrote me four songs [poems] a day
> >
> > If you're digging for 2 syllables, maybe "love songs".. or "sonnets", but
> > that might be too literary to fit.
>
> No, the problem is only that "songs" and "poems" are both the same word in
> hebrew ("shirim", "shir" singular, and yes, that's like my name ;-). So the
> line in case could be read either way. Chris has caught me many times
> referring to the "songs" I wrote (actually poems). My friend does know about
> the song-poem dealie though, so she'll figure it out.
Hey, who'da thunk it. Neat - I didn't know that.
> > > Signed with an arrow-cut heart;
> > > If that’s not a language
> > > Dreams of ktipha
> > > That fell out of the wooden box…
> >
> > Yow. In your earlier post you tag it as "the material"... hmm...
> >
> > Dreams of the things
> > That fell out of the wooden box...
> <grin> Maybe. The material in discussion here is a soft and fuzzy fabric.
> Not silk. It's kinda shines, it's not fur though... it's the kind of fabric
> royalty might use on their beds (not satin either though! Urr...). I know
> that once I figure it out, I'll be all "gee, I shoulda thought about *that*"
> and everything. Bummer.
Ah! Material as in Fabric as in Cloth as in Woven Fibres! I was scratching for
clues in the rest of the stanza - 'we found a map to treasure island' or
something like that, so I thought maybe it was a box of bits 'n' pieces,
artifacts like. Can't help you here either - the only fibre I know of that's
remotely like a cross betwixt silk and fur would be alpaca - a similar creature
to a llama - and even then I only know the feeling of the fibres as they're
spun into yarn.. within the narrow context of hand-spinning, alpaca has the
very best qualities of silk and of wool - it goes together real nice. Ok, now
I'm really rambling on a bit here, and besides that I'll pretty much guarantee
that 'alpaca' is just not the word you're looking for - just another random
brain-spark of the sort that tends to happen in the wee hours.
nnnNext!
>
> Thanks Kevin!
You're very welcome. I'm sure your friend will appreciate your efforts,
especially being that there's a word or two that just don't translate directly.
Cheers,
KMaynes
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Help with a few words - kinda urgent
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| Hi Kevin! Since it's 3 AM and I can't sleep, I might as well reply to your message. :-) Thanks, first off, for going over this, it's good to get feedback. Here are some whys/why nots for the word choices... (...) Yup! (...) Hmmm, the reference is to (...) (23 years ago, 25-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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