Subject:
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Re: Blair Witch Project - Thoughts?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:03:41 GMT
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Viewed:
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282 times
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<snipped intro stuff>
> > There are a few "movie" flaws here that no one can argue, all having to
> > do with "why the heck would the camera be rolling?". There were three
> > times I could think of that this really stuck out for me, but the
> > accuracy of the scenes soon washed over these flaws, and the movie
> > continued on. Ever had a dream where you were watching yourself in the
> > dream?
>
> I did have a dream about this movie the night I saw it, and I was
> frustrated. I was watching a similar thing, but it was with 12 people
> getting killed, and it still didn't bother me. I won't get into all the
> details, but there were many decapitated heads, etc.
I've found that content in dreams doesn't necessarily correlate with
feeling. I've seen some "very bad" stuff, and have been unaffected by
it, and I also once had a dream about smurfs that scared me senseless; I
remember waking in a cold sweat. I haven't a clue as to why that was.
<snip>
> > The Blair Witch Project wasn't a matter of "getting it" or "not getting
> > it". Rather, it was a portrayal of how people work (and didn't work),
> > and what that could lead to. If you didn't plug into the trio pretty
> > soon after the movie started, you didn't have any point of reference to
> > see the degeneration that happened. Being objective in this movie will
> > kill the movie for you. Being subjective will kill you instead of the
> > movie. :)
>
> Hmm... I didn't connect with any of the characters, any of the time.
> Maybe that is my problem. I guess I wasn't an artist-type person, and
> was rather annoyed at the drinking, the swearing, and the general
> college student portrayal in this. The whole thing of going into the
> woods to try to find this stuff, inexperienced, and totally unprepared,
> made me wonder a little. Anyway...
I don't think there is any correlation between connection and
similarity. I wouldn't even come close to identifying with any of the
three main characters. They *were* acting idiotic for a good deal of the
first segment. However, their degeneration was not of their own choosing
(more on this later down). Had they been the ones to choose so badly,
then I could have tossed off the movie as a poorly done "terror" flick.
But the events in the movie were not circumstantial, so the "horror" of
the progression was consistent.
[side note] I make a distinction between "terror" and "horror" movies.
Most "scary" movies are terror movies, in that they are some iteration
of a hack 'n' slash type. A few select movies are actually horror
movies, where there is something pschologically/spiritually/etc. wrong
portrayed by the movie. I place The Blair Witch Project in the latter
category. [end side note]
<snipped declaration of three main elements to the movie>
> > First was the accuracy of the portrayal of witchcraft. I'm not
> > knowledgeable of the specifics of witchcraft, but I am aware of the
> > suppositions involved in how witchcraft works, and this movie does an
> > excellent job at underlining these suppositions. While clearly this
> > isn't prerequisite knowledge for viewing the movie (as evidenced by all
> > those who were scared silly), it added extra punch into freaking me out.
>
> Well, Larry P. says God is a invisible pink elephant, so I guess the
> devil could be an invisible blue donkey (Yes, politics again). My faith
> as a Christian, and what I have experienced, makes me have no doubt that
> Satan is real and he does do things to people. Witchcraft is real,
> although the source people can argue about. I assume you are talking
> about the south compass deal, and the Josh voice perhaps? The dolls, the
> cemetery, and the concept of a cult living out there is not too
> unbelievable.
The existence of a cult in the movie I would have a hard time accepting;
once a group of people surpasses three or four members, group dynamics
change, and energy diffuses. With a small group, it is much easier for
the head of the group to control things. Everything in the movie could
have been "pulled off" by just one person. I thought the Josh voice
really was his voice--and wow, was that hideous. The sheer pain you
could hear was creepy. The others are very much possible, the south
compass being a terrific example. How can someone go in circles if the
compass always points in the same direction? That was when I knew that
the events in the movie were not circumstantial.
Point being, this movie does presume the possibility of witchcraft. We
don't need to believe in it, but we do need to entertain the possibility
of its existence. If we don't, we're in for a dumb movie. Under the
assumption that witchcraft might possibly exist, events can start to
line up in a series. We don't even need to believe in a "god" or a
"satan". We only need to believe in a right and wrong, good and bad. No
specifics necessary.
The basis of dark witchcraft is to take away pieces of one's perception
of reality so that the person does something towards the manipulator's
ends. The Blair Witch worked with the minds of the trio so that even
though the compass was clearly pointing the same way all of the time
(not to mention the sun continued its daily east-to-west traversal), the
way that the trio processed that information left enough awareness out
that they were able to walk themselves into a circle. Witchcraft doesn't
do things like transport people or other "wizardly" magic. Witchcraft
takes reality and warps it by removing awareness of certain parts of
reality, in much the same way that a cult brainwashes people into
thinking certain things are okay. Again, this is from my limited
knowledge, so anyone with more information, feel free to add to/correct
what I say.
So, the trio starts out in fun camaraderie (sp.?). When they are found
and marked by the Blair Witch, the progression of events eventually
leads them to their downfall. Doing things like pitching a map and
"mis-following" a compass are ludicrous in themselves, but that's "point
C". Making the transition from camaraderie to sarcasm is A to B. Sarcasm
to backbiting is B to C. Now, with angst and frustration built up toward
a campmate, pitching away the map "serves them right", and can actually
be justified at that point, to that person. Had we asked any of the trio
at the beginning of the trip if they could think of a reason to pitch
the map, they would have called us bonkers. But the degeneration made it
possible.
<snipped "here-and-now" camera techique as the second element of the
movie>
> > So as the degeneration of the three occurred, the cause-and-effect was
> > spot on. I thought the lady was a phenomenal actress, and the escalating
> > flaws between the people in the group were handled masterfully. From an
> > "objective" standpoint, yes, they were being *really* stupid. What makes
> > this movie so scary was that they were capable of being "that stupid".
>
> Hmm... I can't imagine all the bad choices they made here, but it was
> annoying me after the first or second night. The map thing was
> especially hard for me to swallow. No one is *that* dumb.
Have you ever experienced someone who has "cut off their nose to spite
their face"? The map thing was an iteration of that. If he believed the
map wasn't necessary, and removing the map would actually serve his own
(misguided) ends, then it's very possible. I've seen it happen in real
life, based on variations of pride, frustration, and ego.
The scene where the lady is wiping her hands, and then donning gloves,
is one of the creepiest psychological portrayals I've ever seen. That
look on her face of, "oh god, it's gonna be okay, I'll just get clean,
I'm gonna be okay, I'll just get clean, I'm gonna be okay..." was really
shattering.
> > Yes, they were capable of being that stupid. But neither they nor anyone
> > else would reach that point, unless something really drastic happened.
> > Usually it's of the order of some serious alcohol. Replace alcohol with
> > witchcraft, note each and every point that the three of them make
> > unusual choices or react in bizarre ways, and you see a subtle web of
> > manipulation form of ever increasing horror. It gives me chills just to
> > type about this now. This is where the third and most important element
> > comes in.
>
> So you are saying that witchcraft was affecting them as well? Hmm... I
> thought maybe it was the compass deal, it could be...... still though,
> their lack of control, or belief in God is even more depressing. I know
> I would have prayed a lot in this situation.
Absolutely, among many other things they should have done. But then, to
be capable of resolving some of the issues out there would also
predispose them against going on such an excursion in the first place.
The trio's disposition made them vulnerable to manipulation. From the
time they were marked until their downfall, the gradual increase in the
insanity of their decisions was largely a result of the subtle
manipulations of witchcraft and conventional conditioning.
> > The third element is the distinction between lesser and greater evil,
> > and this movie is the best portrayal I have ever seen to that effect
> > (quick note--I'm not experienced in the horror genre, nor do I plan to
> > be). To be plugged into what the characters were doing, but only be "the
> > observer" and know how it happens but not why it happens, is to witness
> > the migration from lesser to greater evil, and be equally powerless to
> > stop it.
>
> So you are saying that the lesser evil started maybe when they first
> came, and as the days progressed, the greater evil was overpowering them
Yes. They already brought lesser evil with them. With this came the
vulnerability to greater evil. Over the course of the movie, the greater
evil of the Blair Witch was able to manipulate the trio *through* their
lesser evil. More on lesser vs. greater evil further down.
> ( The Josh scream making them go into the house? )
The whole house scene was masterful of greater evil, full of things
similar to the Josh scream.
> > This is getting long
>
> It's off-topic.debate. This is the place for long posts. :)
Fair enough. :)
> > so I'll expand on these elements in another post
> > if someone wants.
>
> I'm interested.
The detail of the first and second elements are above, which leaves the
third element of lesser vs. greater evil.
Here's a quickie take on good and evil (more detail available if you
want it): Good is the integration, the union of things. Evil is the
separation, the disintegration of things. When we separate ourselves
from other things and other people, we sever our connection with them,
and then become capable of doing harm to them, and to ourselves.
Somebody cuts us off in traffic, and we get mad. If we make a separation
between them and us, we take their action personally. They cut *us* off
in traffic. We don't even question why someone would do such a thing.
Depending on a number of factors, we can become capable of doing
anything from muttering to making obscene gestures, to going on a
vehicular homicide run via real life bumper cars.
This is lesser evil. While normally we connect with other people and
other things, something happens and our reaction is to separate
ourselves from it. When we make that separation, we take things
personally. We forget that there are causes as to why people do things,
even if what they do is harmful (to us and/or others). Sure, they cut us
off in traffic. But they couldn't care less about cutting *us* off. They
were in a hurry. Or felt compelled to get the extra two inches closer to
their destination for that extra moment of time. Or someone was having
contractions in the front seat, and they had to get to the hospital
*now*. It's even possible that they felt a need to cut us off to feel
like they had control and superiority over *something*, and we got to be
the "lucky" recipient.
Lesser evil is when we lose control of ourselves in reaction to pain
that is done to us. Evil and pain are propagated while we are
temporarily out of control of ourselves. It could be as little as
hitting the table upon which we stubbed our toe, or as big as shooting
someone out of sheer fear, anger, hatred, etc. Our actions, actually
*reactions*, were a result of a temporary loss of control of ourselves.
Lesser evil is purely reactive.
Greater evil makes the leap from being reactive to being proactive. It
assumes evil is not the exception, but rather the status quo. Greater
evil happens as a result of the decision to accomplish, grow, and
succeed based on pain done to others, and things taken from others, be
it other people or other things. This is actually an illusion, because
there is no accomplishment, growth, or success; it merely looks that way
since everyone around us is falling down. When we work according to
greater evil, we seem taller, and we can use this as justification to
ourselves. We maintain our stagnancy through the insistence that we are
responsible for our "accomplishment", when in fact it is the reactions
of others that control that "accomplishment".
In The Blair Witch Project, each member of the trio had "lesser evil"
issues. The lady's ambition was out of control, and she was not
completely up front and honest with her intentions. Josh had a habit of
being antagonistic towards others, which was all in good fun, but his
dependency upon defining himself in that way turned fun into pain when
he couldn't let go of others' faults. The third person (I can't remember
his name) was a nice, quiet, along-for-the-ride person until the ride
started getting bumpy. When things didn't turn out the way he expected
them to, he started doing things to build an illusion of "how he thought
things should be", which in combination with the faults of others, made
him get rid of the map.
=== SPOILER ALERT === THE PROCEEDING REVEALS THE PROGRESSION OF EVENTS
===
=== SPOILER ALERT === THE PROCEEDING REVEALS THE PROGRESSION OF EVENTS
===
So the trio brought lesser evils with them. The specific lesser evils
weren't important to the Blair Witch; what was important was
accelerating the magnitude of them so that they became the rule as
opposed to the exception. When the Blair Witch made first contact with
the trio, they heard "weird noises" outside at night. The noises
themselves didn't matter. What mattered is that they weren't normal.
When the trio woke up the next morning, there were three piles of
stones. Similar to the ones at the grave site, and one for each member
of the trio.
This is personalized weirdness, and the beginning of the manipulation
that would take them from lesser evil to greater evil (and the audience
with them).
Later they would find weird voodoo stick people all over the place.
Somebody went to a *lot* of trouble to make all that stuff. So for
whoever made them, this was *normal*. It was somehow right for that
person to do so. As little voodoo stick people showed up on various
places in the forest, the trio began to associate their travels with
"being marked". Just like the guy who got cut off in traffic, the trio
erroneously assumed that the voodoo stick people were targeted at
*them*, but they weren't. It was coincidence that the voodoo stick
people consistently showed up in the trio's travels, but because the
three piles of stones *weren't* coincidence, it was very easy for the
trio to assume that neither were the voodoo stick people. This is a
standard manipulation technique--make people think that circumstantial
events are actually targeted at them.
Notice that up until this point, no "magic" was done yet. Piles of
stones and voodoo stick figures and weird sounds were establishing
"weird" to be the norm over the first three days. As the trio let their
fear separate themselves from everything going on i.e. they personalized
these events as being targeted toward them specifically (vs. toward
anyone who would happen to enter into the area), they began to
internalize this fear, and thus internalize the separation, making
separation the standard instead of the exception.
This is why we start to see increasingly strange actions from the trio
members. Camaraderie goes to sarcasm, and they take shots at each other.
As fear builds, they start to take things more seriously and more
personally, and go from sarcasm to backbiting and paranoia. Josh is
usually a pretty decent guy--why is he being so harsh toward me? The
lady was always driven--but now she's driving us right over a cliff.
What gives? The crux of these questions isn't why the people are doing
these things, but why they are doing these things "to me". They react to
each other negatively in the same way that they were acted upon, and it
becomes a downward spiral.
So we have a cycle of lesser evils, encouraged by the Blair Witch to
become standard as opposed to the exception. As the trio internalized
this, the ground became fertile for the Blair Witch to do actual
witchcraft, which again is, in essence, manipulation. The trio was
*already* in the habit of eliminating parts of reality from their
awareness "for the sake of what they saw *should* be right", so it was
that much simpler to take out a couple more pieces, resulting in a
perfectly working compass and a consistent sunrise/sunset being
*completely* discounted so that the trio ended up walking in a circle.
Notice that two of the four "non-conventional" manipulations (i.e. where
witchcraft was involved) were *location-based* manipulation. The first
one was having the trio go in a circle (which lead to some serious
disheartening), and the last was to lead them to the house. The
"children" that spooked them on the third or forth night was the second
time witchcraft was used, and it's possible that that wasn't witchcraft,
but more conventional manipulation. Likewise, the disappearance of Josh
may be the third occasion, but that could also have been accomplished by
conventional means. Everything else was certainly conventional
manipulation (placement of strange things, strange sounds, etc.)
So, lesser evil is the temporary absence of awareness that we are
interconnected. Greater evil assumes that this is the standard, not the
exception. The trio brought lesser evils with them, and refused to
examine and let go of these evils. Through conventional manipulation and
a little witchcraft, the Blair Witch was able to make their "evils" go
from exception to rule. The greater evil of the Blair Witch depended
upon the lesser evil of the trio for the Blair Witch to "succeed" in the
downfall of the trio.
> > Otherwise, here's the Blair Witch Project in a
> > nutshell:
> >
> > Accuracy in witchcraft, in setting, in lesser and greater evil.
> > Connection with the three main characters.
> >
> > Accuracy + Connection = freak-out horror movie.
> >
> > If you have one or more of the accuracy elements as a point of
> > reference, *and* you connected with the characters early on, you got
> > scared. The more you had, the worse it was for you. If you were missing
> > *either* of the two additives (usually the connection), you had to sit
> > through someone's handycam goofball movie.
>
> Hmm.. I guess some of the things you said do put a different light on
> it, but in my experience and life, it was hard for me to connect with
> any of them, and maybe that is the main reason for my lack of
> understanding in this movie.
Absolutely. The effect of the movie was partially dependent upon you
connecting with the trio in some way.
> > Who was better off? I can't say. As much as it hurt, I'm glad I saw the
> > movie; it forced me to face some issues I wouldn't have otherwise done
> > in terms of recognizing the difference between lesser and greater evil.
> > And I wouldn't wish the same process on anyone.
>
> No, I guess it was a painful thing for you. It was for me as well, but
> it showed me that the power of evil (Donkey) is ever present, and can do
> horrible things.
I would have preferred to have been able to learn that without having
had "to go through that". :) I'd like to think I can do that now.
> Your post got into some personal stuff, so if you feel uncomfortable
> about posting anything else, you can just e-mail me, since I brought it
> up. Thanks for your input.
Thank you. If parts of this thread begin to tread on difficult ground
for me, I'll say so, and Email you accordingly (and anyone else who
wants to go into issues outside of a public forum).
> (Being alone here at work now and freaked out thinking about this >:( )
I hear that. I still get chills and flashbacks when I talk about this
movie.
Adam
bwappo@ee.net
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Blair Witch Project - Thoughts?
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| Adam Yulish wrote in message <3893398D.617B42FA@ee.net>... (...) Sounds a lot like what I call life affirming versus non-life affirming, to an extent, so I can see where you are coming from, I think. (...) I am getting the impression that you say (...) (24 years ago, 30-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Blair Witch Project - Thoughts?
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| Adam, (...) Hmm... I know I do that from time to time as well, such as why did I just spend 300.00 on LEGO? :) I can tell it would affect some people though. (...) Well, I know I am usually on one side or the other (Usually on the right ;) ), and (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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