 | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Frank Filz
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| | | Dave Schuler wrote in message ... (...) in (...) family) (...) If no one wanted to help them, then how in heck do we end up with a law helping them? Who passed the law in the first place if no one wanted to help them? I really doubt ANYONE (no (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) That's an interesting assertion, but it has nothing to do with what I said. (...) Obviously I'm not suggesting that all "charity" is or should be driven by blind funds--that would be akin to throwing money down a well. My question, however, (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) Please use our term. It's our meme, not yours, and using some other word means you are talking about some other thing, which we don't have to defend since it's your idea rather than ours. Libertopia as a name was chosen specifically to drive (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Actually, whatever the intent, I think it comes across as an implication of rather than a distinction from Utopia (...) I used the word interchangeably, and as far as I was concerned they were the same. You're right, however, and I apologize (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) For what it's worth, I have a different take on this than Larry does. I agree that (to me, at least) Libertopia implies "our flavor of utopia" rather than something wholly different. And, I think the use of Liber-rama (which is how I'd spell (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Jasper Janssen
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| | | | | | (...) "Libertopia" comes across (to me) as a name specifically chosen to drive home the point that it _is_ utopia. You did a fairly bad job if the above was what you were trying to convey with the name. Would have been better to avoid any mention of (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) Maybe I need to re-read what you wrote, but perhaps you could expand and clarify what you were trying to say. (...) It seems to me we are on the verge of corporations running the schools anywise. Look at all the product advertising which is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | (...) (Banging head against wall) Why oh why was I so silly as to begin reading this thread. Why not just tie 'em to the land and call them serfs? Heck, let's admit that they'll never amount to anything and put them in factories at age 6. Let's (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) My point was that I agree absolutely that it is foolish to contribute to charity without some sense of where one's money will wind up but I don't feel I can trust a corporation or a single wealthy individual to fund an educational system (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | (...) Who says a single individual or corporation is going to be running most schools? Currently the government gets most of its money from the middle class. These people will still have this money to spend on services. I know that I would be at (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) A very convenient piece of gerrymandering. (...) Okay, now it's my turn to have painted with too broad a brush, and you point out some powerful counterexamples. The unifying factor I see in your cases is some natural catastrophe or extremity (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | (...) My point is that since we aren't perfect, there will always be a few jerks. Constraining the whole society for a few jerks seems irrational. Look at how the current "zero tolerance" of weapons is working in the schools. Kids are getting (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Nor am I asserting that all humans are bad--I'm merely pointing out that people's behavior will expand, so to speak, to fill the boundaries allowed to them. In addition, you've given spot examples to shore up your argument as well--how can you (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | | (...) Hmm. The riots in Seattle were from WTO disagreements, wasn't it? People, no matter what they believe in, sometimes do evil things. I think some the riots were caused by the civil unrest of the country, which have ironed out somewhat. I think (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | | (...) I don't want to go out on a limb, but just because it happened in a fairly conservative town doesn't mean idiots, rioters, evil and corrupt people won't do things. I know a few conservative people that I can't stand sometimes. Doing these (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | Scott: (...) restrictions (...) True enough--I was just trying to illustrate that State College isn't typically some crazy town of hoodlums (or is that hoodla?). (...) Some were, because they were caught on video. I don't know what the final count (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | | Dave, (...) Hmm... going in Ann Arbor (MI), Lansing (MI), and Ohio State (Columbus), there were a lot of hoodlums, trying to pick on the college people. The worst was Ohio State, the East side of the campus, right on the border, were some of the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Your comment about a lack of respect for property is a good one. To those opposed to the Libertarian ideal, think about the effect that government not respecting property rights transforms the populace into not respecting property rights (or (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —John DiRienzo
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| | | | | | | | Scott E. Sanburn wrote in message <387E4253.33A064C2@c...eb.net>... (...) these (...) fullest (...) final (...) <rant against people> And they write on the walls, too!! </rap> -- Have fun! John The Legos you've been dreaming of... (URL) weird Lego (...) (25 years ago, 14-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | | (...) Yes, that as well! Grr.... >:( Scott S. ___...___ Scott E. Sanburn-> ssanburn@cleanweb.net Systems Administrator/CAD Operator-Affiliated Engineers -> (URL) Page -> (URL) Page -> (URL) (25 years ago, 14-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Hmm. (19 years ago, 2-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) What were those tests done with rats in a cage-- a few rats in a large cage with lots of food and water, no problem many rats in a small cage with hardly any food and water--mass pandemonium We've seriously not evolved that far from the other (...) (19 years ago, 2-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) That’s discussed at some length in “Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors” by Ann Druyan and the late Carl Sagan. They stress that one can’t always predict human crisis-response based on the behavior of rats, but real-world examples make one wonder (...) (19 years ago, 2-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) I wouldn't directly correlate humans and rats, either. Rats turning on each other in bad situations is an 'instinctive defense mechanism' that they can't consiously do anything about. Humans, on the other hand, even though we have 'instinctive (...) (19 years ago, 2-Sep-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —John DiRienzo
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| | | | Frank Filz wrote in message <387DFF2B.5B98@minds...ng.com>... (...) Thank you Frank! -- Have fun! John The Legos you've been dreaming of... (URL) weird Lego site: (URL) (25 years ago, 14-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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