Subject:
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Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:15:56 GMT
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Viewed:
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2694 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
>
> > What were those tests done with rats in a cage--
> >
> > a few rats in a large cage with lots of food and water, no problem
> >
> > many rats in a small cage with hardly any food and water--mass pandemonium
> >
> > We've seriously not evolved that far from the other species on this planet.
>
> That’s discussed at some length in “Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors” by Ann
> Druyan and the late Carl Sagan. They stress that one can’t always predict human
> crisis-response based on the behavior of rats, but real-world examples make one
> wonder nonetheless.
I wouldn't directly correlate humans and rats, either. Rats turning on each
other in bad situations is an 'instinctive defense mechanism' that they can't
consiously do anything about.
Humans, on the other hand, even though we have 'instinctive defense mechanisms'
(i.e. spasming when choking--the body does that as a reflex, not as a consious
thought), we are suppose to have conscious thoughts that are suppose to keep the
'instinctive reactions' in check.
Turns out that the 'well mannered person' isn't as far removed from the
neanderthal--acting on 'me first' against the good of others.--as we would have
hoped.
The flip side is, I know there are going to be stories about those who gave
'over and above'--like people giving their last bottles of water or food to the
old and infirm.
Like the soldiers of old who threw themselves on grenades to save their
comrades.
"What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in
form, in moving, how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in
apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals!
And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? man delights not me"
Eh, anytime I can quote Shakespeare, I'm a happy camper...
> In the old thread to which I replied above, I asserted something like “humans
> aren’t evil per se, but they will tend to expand to fill the space available, so
> to speak.” That is, with a relaxing of enforced rules, people’s behavior will
> tend to expand to the limits of enforcement. And when all rules are abandoned
> or negated, it doesn’t take long for desperation to yield violence.
Again, as above, there will be those that resort to violence (and that's the
newsworthy bit we're seeing now) and those that give until they can't give
anymore (not so newsworthy these days)
>
> For the record, I have no problem, moral or otherwise, with a person who “loots”
> a loaf of bread to feed his family following an astonishing disaster. However,
> the idiot who “loots” a plasma tv or a vacuum cleaner had better explain his
> immediate and justifable “need” for that appliance.
>
> To that end, it’s obscene that the media are focusing so heavily on the
> “problem” of “looting,” when in fact the real problem is the Bush
> adminstration’s inexcusably feeble response to the hurricane. Is it really a
> big deal that some guy stole a can of tuna, when Michael Chertoff is on tv
> publicly (and falsely) declaring that food and water are being distributed to
> everyone?
>
> He should be fired, and so should the idiot who hired him.
>
> Dave!
I won't mention that I hear rumblings that Dubya has been foolin' with FEMA and
other agencies that were suppose to handle these situations. As well, in the
top natural disaster concerns for the past years, New Orleans flooding was in
the top 3, yet Dubya took money earmarked for 'levy-building' and put it
elsewhere (homeland defense, supposedly)
Well, we talked of rats, but these ones are more like chickens comin' home to
roost. Hope there's an investigation into these allegations--oh wait--No WoMD,
but no real investigation. CIA operative outed, no investigation. Haliburton
getting tons of dough for questionable results--no investigation. Iraq marked
for war long before war started--no investigation. Soldiers having substandard
equipmment (Support the Troops!!)--no investigation. Gannon-gate,--well, little
investigation...
But a cigar? Whatever...
Sensing a theme here...
Dave K
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