Subject:
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Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:37:20 GMT
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Viewed:
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939 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote:
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Once again, in the category of “Why Bother?”...
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Justin Pankey wrote:
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Neo-Nazi’s and the KKK are not Christians at all! The term means one that
follows Christ and His teachings. There is no evidence in any of Christ’s
teaching that He would suppport the actions of these groups, in fact their
actions are entirely counter to the fundamental teaching of Christ.
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You do not get to decide that -- they do! I am pretty sure a Xtian is
anyone calling themselves a Xtian, however misguided you may think their
beliefs may be. For example, President Shrub thinks of himself as a Xtian --
I think it’s just his cloak to commit atrocities in the world, but it doesn’t
change the fact that he identifies himself as Xtian. Same thing for Boykin,
who is covered elsewhere in this forum.
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In any religion there are certain core values that one must adhere too to be
considered part of the group. If your line of thinking were valid, I could call
myself an atheist and still claim to believe in God and you would be powerless
to challange that assertion.
Further, if you believe that President Bush is commiting “atrocities” by trying
to wipe out terrorism and dictatorships then to this debate I say “Why bother?”
You are lost in more ways than one ;o)
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In Christianity God is seen as “God the Father” a God that you can
personally know and one that acts as a human father (love plus dicipline).
In Islam, for example, Allah is not personally knowable and his character is
more “dictatorial.” Articles on this subject fill many complex pages. The
bottom line is that the societies where many people are
uneducated/illiterate and taught the dictates of Islam...those societies
tend to be MUCH MORE subject to becoming dictatorships.
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Again, you do not get to decide these various issues for people. There are
many flavors of of Xtianity and Islam with varying degrees of a “dictatorial”
godhead. To borrow and repair your phrase: “complex articles on this subject
fill many pages.”
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Thank you for the repair I obvoiusly missed that in the proof.
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And finally, this part was interesting: “The bottom line is that the
societies where many people are uneducated/illiterate and taught the dictates
of Islam...those societies tend to be MUCH MORE subject to becoming
dictatorships.”
Oh yeah, then explain the history of Germany in the last century to me? How
about that of Italy? Japan?
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Germany was ripe for a dictator like Hitler because the country was ravaged by
the reparations forced upon it at the end of World War I.
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With the McCarthy Era behind us, but with our recent/current bout with the
forces arrayed against american liberty; how do you measure our supposedly
“Xtian” ripeness for a dictatorship? I think ALL of the people in power
today seeking to limit american freedoms are Xtian -- it’s an interesting
correlation to many because it seems to suggest a nexus between people of a
particular faith and a certain kind of apocalyptic irrationality that is
problematic in our western culture. You may disagree with their agenda as
much as I do, but do you deny that they often dress up their goals in Xtian
terms in an attempt to appeal to the Xtian-right? I mean, for all I know
they actually believe their own pyscho-Xtian agenda. But which do you find
less worrying: they they actually believe it, or that they don’t but that it
is a useful political tool for them?
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I believe Bush is an honest Christian and I’m actually proud to have him as
President...to which you and I now diverge with not hope of reconciliation :o)
I can only imagine which freedoms you feel are being attacked. It’s the social
freedoms and divergence from a Christian society in the early 70’s that has lead
to the breakdown in family for which we are all now paying a heavy price in
America. Statistics regarding out of wedlock births, fatherless homes, lack of
respect for human life, etc. all correlate very well with the rising crime rates
and lack of personal responsibility that has seen hundredfold increases in
recent decades. The resulting social breakdown that occurs when people refuse
to limit their own behavior based on a religious morality only causes the
government to create more laws to do the limiting for them. Some of founding
fathers even acknowledged this fact.
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Stop being so myopic, please! There are many flavors of religion and belief;
many of them deeply offensive to those of us that love peace more than any
possible god.
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If I were truly myopic I would not have even paid attention to this little
discussion. Peace is a great goal, but not while millions worldwide are
suffering and oppressed by evil dictators. What? Do you believe that if all
people world wide gave up religious conviction we would suddenly live in a
peaceful utopia...that man is basically good? If so than how do you explain the
history of the last century to ME? And who decides what is right and what is
wrong...you with your peaceful thoughts, or Hitler and Saddam who felt/fell they
were doing right?
Justin
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