Subject:
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Re: First entry in "predict the responses!"
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 23 May 2002 08:08:03 GMT
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Viewed:
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316 times
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<snip>
> The author stated, rightly, that there have been *many* places in the world
> subjected to colonialism, as in Hong Kong, and these places picked
> themselves up by their own bootstraps and 'grew up'.
I can't agree HK is all that good a comparator. The cold war also had a huge
impact in the ME… this was less true of HK.
> Instead of the
> snivvling little 5 year old who was 'done wrong' so many years ago and wants
> to hold a grudge until it eats them up from the inside, these places did
> something constructive, rational, thoughtful.
What if the wrong, which happened so many years ago, is continuing?
> No vendettas, no shaking
> fists at fate, whatever.
>
> WHen the autor says
>
> > “Being Arabs, they are incapable of constructing a rational polity, so their
> > future is probably hopeless whatever happens.”
>
> it is cynnical tongue in cheek -- it's like saying, 'oh you say you stopped
> drinking (smoking, doing coke, whatever--well, you've said that 10 times
> before. prove to me that you mean it now.'
>
> Sure I hear that peace is wanted. I hear that terror is abhorred. I hear
> that they want to do better. I hear many many things. I also read
> terrorists walking into buildings, blowing them up. Words are just words
> until action happens, reinforcing the words.
You are using the actions of a minority to condemn the majority. The actions
of the IRA, did not alter my view of those living in NI.
>
> I have a family memeber who doesn't quite seem to get it--how to live in the
> world. The sweetest nicest guy in the world (much nicer than I have ever
> been) but he can't seem to keep a job, or money, for whatever reasons. He
> buys 50 inch screen tv's on those payment plans when his credit card(s) are
> maxed, when his rent is past due, when he still is paying off the living
> room/dining room/bedroom suites.
>
> I, as well as most family members, contributed financial, emotional,
> whatever support we could possibly give. We have opened doors into the job
> markets, we have tried to discuss, get counselling, whatever we could do.
>
> It is a train wreck waiting to happen. I'm 35. I've been watching this
> train wreck over and over again for the last 15 years. You *do* get to the
> point when you have to avert your eyes. We love him but, seriously, you
> have to say, 'Well, now what? You say you want to get better yet it just
> doesn't happen.' The words are not equalling the actions.
I sympathise with your position, but I am not sure this is a good analogy.
>
> Blaming America (western civ) for the problems in the Arab nations is
> completely totally equal to blaming the Arab nations for 9/11.
I don't agree. The problems of the ME can largely be attributed to the
actions of "western civ" and the cold war. Extremists perpetrated the events
of September 9th.
<snip>
>
> As a final thought, coming from West Wing last week, which highlights the
> one thing I have always appreciated about America and the way they do
> things, is their extraordinary efforts to minimize civilian casualties.
> America 'measures success by how *few* civilians are killed--
I can't agree with this. The main measure/concern in Afghanistan has been
the loss of servicemen - not "collateral damage". Does the US government
even publish estimates of the civilian casualties in Afghanistan? Likewise,
the Israelis are very quick to count their own dead and allow TV access...
but are more coy when it comes to their own acts of terror.
If the US had been prepared to risk servicemen a little more, the actions in
Afghanistan may well have been a good deal more effective. If they had been
willing to protect civilians a little more, the action may have had more
international support.
...I doubt that argument would have done much for the west wing’s viewing
figures and advertising revenues.
> 'Todays enemy'
> measures success by how *many* civilians were killed.
I find this a rather naive statement.
Scott A
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: First entry in "predict the responses!"
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| (...) What if the wrong, which started so many years ago, which is also continuing because it is being perpetuated by *both* sides, continues? Who's at fault *today*? They *both* are. Let me try a different analogy and see if you like it better. (...) (23 years ago, 23-May-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: First entry in "predict the responses!"
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| (...) I thought that the entire article was written with a cynnical 'tongue in cheek' method. I don't think the author is racist, but rather looking at the "facts" as he sees them and saying that' "Hey, you've had just as much opportunity thru the (...) (23 years ago, 22-May-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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