Subject:
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Re: Curious, if true
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:28:04 GMT
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Viewed:
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475 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
>
> > > You mean when I step on one at the beach?
> > >
> > > Or do you mean I'm supposed to care if junkies contract AIDS? I mean,
> > > hypothetically, I do care. But at the same time, that's a risk they are
> > > balancing as they make their decisions. It's not exactly any of my business.
> >
> > I meant both. And it is our business as well, to take care of those who
> > can't take care of themselves.
>
> Who can't? What about those who can (~99.99% of the population) but choose not
> to? Should they not have that right?
And by choosing that, are you not "taking care of yourself"? ;-)
> If not, I find the world that you want
> to live in creepy. I even accept on some philosophic level that I have a
> responsibility to help those around me. And sometimes I do. But for the most
> part, I don't know how without doing stuff that I think is wrong...like
> legislating heroine use.
By "taking care" I do not mean legislate or coerce. Sometimes a simple "WAKE
UP!" scream is what's missing so that someone realizes there may be
something wrong. Just the fact of being there may be important - loneliness
is the worst feeling I can remember.
> > I entered my college's bar (smokey!); after a
> > couple of weeks I did not feel anything.
>
> I'm sure If I spent a couple weeks in a bar I wouldn't be feeling much either.
> Man, you Portuguese know how to party! ;-)
LOL!
But you did get the idea.
(As for the party issue, well, we manage just fine ;-)
> Seriously though, I wouldn't get used to it like that. You should take into
> consideration that the level of discomfort people experience given the same
> stimulus varies.
You are right. I am however surprised to have accepted it so easily
(frankly, I was expecting a lot more coughs from my side).
> > C'mon, after one gets an addict you no longer care? That is mighty selfish.
>
> It's not that I don't care. And it really has nothing to do with them being an
> addict. I sort of figure we're all heroine addicts (waiting to find
> ourselves), so I don't feel better than somone else who happens to be actively
> addicted. I just don't see how it's my business to fix their problems. Are
> they even asking for help?
What, and someone under the influence can easily ask for help?
They get up, shoot one dose, go off to find money, buy another dose, repeat
"ad nauseum", then go to sleep, and start again next day. So their day is
divided between tw states, one of obsession (find drugs!) and the other of
hallucination. Hangovers are even worse... Now, exactly *when* do they have
the presence of mind to ask for help? It is up to us to "shake" them a bit
out of this somehow catatonic condition.
> > An addict is a sick person, and must be treated. Not ignored. They don't
> > automatically become human waste!
>
> Not all sick people need to be treated.
At least taken care of, in order to keep living quality!
> And frankly, I'm not comfortable with
> you determining who is sick and should receive involuntary psychiatric
> treatment. Am I sick because I don't want to help junkies?
No.
*I* do not determine who is sick. But what then would you call a junkie? Sain?
> > > Maybe the solution to that is a $5 deposit on each complete syringe. Big
> > > brother should like that too for being able to track use.
> >
> > Or syringe trade; we've had that for 6 years or so and results were
> > satisfactory. At least the disease transmission rate has slowed down a bit
> > through this vector.
>
> Cool! I was just making the idea up, but if it's working out, that's great.
>
> > I used to find needles in the railway tracks, in dark alleys, in gardens...
> > then the syringe-trade program begun and it became a lot better.
>
> I guess needle usage is much greater in your neck of the woods. I understand
> that fairly close to me -- near the docks in Philadelphia, I can find a sea of
> junkies and needles, so I suppose it's not that isolated for me either.
When we look for it, it is all around us; often we just choose to ignore.
A brief explanation for my "findings": I live *in* the city, which is the
degraded part of the Metropolitan Area; most people moved to the suburbs,
but junkies tend to concentrate in downtown's abandoned houses. So
technically I'm sort of close to the problem.
And I was closer. My old school had a "needle yard" some 50 m away from the
entrance, and we used to chat with the junkies in the breaks. I used to
think a bit like you, but that contact softened my heart a little: most of
the junkies had noone to care for them, and that was one of their main
complains.
> > Smoke is a problem, OK; but one I feel less threatened by.
>
> There's the crux of it. _You_ feel less threatened by smoke than needles. _I_
> feel less threatened by needles than smoke. That perfectly describes our
> stances on this.
Seems fair to me.
> > Now, I get the impression you are referring to the dangers of both sorts of
> > drugs *to you*; I meant *for the users*, initially. I am sorry if I lead you
> > the wrong way here.
>
> It probably stems from the fact that I'm less likely than you to try to solve
> the problems of others. It is basic to my world view that they have the
> ability to solve them if things are fair.
> ***(Of course, the fact that things
> aren't changes stuff, but that's a whole other book.)***
So, in a weird way, you end up saying that there *are* reasons for
intervention after all...
Pedro
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Curious, if true
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| (...) Who can't? What about those who can (~99.99% of the population) but choose not to? Should they not have that right? If not, I find the world that you want to live in creepy. I even accept on some philosophic level that I have a responsibility (...) (23 years ago, 5-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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