Subject:
|
Re: A question of remembrance...
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.off-topic.debate
|
Date:
|
Mon, 7 May 2001 04:59:16 GMT
|
Viewed:
|
1200 times
|
| |
|
|
Hi Dan,
I've been following this part of the debate and specifically staying out of
it, because I can tell when a cool-headed discussion turns into a hot flame
war. Although this isn't a full-fledged flame war, it is certainly not a
great debate, and once pointing fingers starts (on either side) I'd rather
just stay out. But I want to post one thing, so I don't feel like I'm
standing by as you totally disavow my country and my beliefs. I don't think
I will post anything in this thread after this, sorry, I daresay I don't
expect to completely change your mind, but I just want you to think of the
other side for just one second. (And perhaps if I feel I can add anything
useful, I'll post again.)
<snip of pointing fingers at the British, Russians, Paletinians and Israelis>
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes:
> I am an Arab. I don't kill anyone, I don't assult anyone, I don't even own a
> gun and I have no criminal record (not even a traffic offense). In fact, if
> you research crime statistics in America, you'll find that Arabs are among
> THE MOST law abiding citizens of America. Yet, since I was a boy, my Arab
> ethnicity earned me so much grief in this country that I eventually changed
> my name.
I think that it's entirely shameful that you should have to, and I have no
doubt that you're a great person. I think I'm correct in saying that you are
like me in the sense that you hate hate. (Does that make sense?) I wish our
world had never came as far as that, and I think that something needs to be
done about this. And it *is* being done, little by little, bit by bit, by
individuals and by groups, by people who care and who refuse to buy into
stereotypes such as those you describe. I feel that both you and I will
educate our children (I don't know if you already have any) to love and not
hate, to take people for *who* they are and not for *what* they are. And
hopefully, in turn, your children and mine will pass that on. Let's hope
that someday the *human race* will not have to worry about such issues, and
that both hate and the wars that stem from it will be gone from this world.
Until then, let's do our best to take individual steps towards that end.
Whaddaya say?
> So, when I hear a man as yourself sprouting invalid opinions (i.e.
> PLO is "far worse"), I feel it is my moral obligation to tell you the truth
> so there's at least one less Zionist puppet in the world.
That's fair enough, every person is entitled to their own convictions, and
you're free to believe that. However, convincing Larry is pretty impossible,
and I doubt you'll get anything from it but high blood-pressure levels.
<only half tongue-in-cheek>
<snip>
> Have it your way, my dear friend. You are right, the Israelis just want to
> live in peace and didn't do anything to deserve those dastardly attacks by
> the PLO.
Believe it or not, Dan, most of us Israelis really *do* want to live in
peace. Don't make generalizations like that - they are the same kind that
you suffered from as a child. And *nobody* deserves to be blown up, whether
in buses or in their homes, *nobody* deserves to be taught to hate or to be
hated. Not Israelis, not Palestinians, not Christians or Jews or Muslems.
But I'll be honest with you. I must admit that I am less upset when two
Palestinians are killed by Israeli soldiers than when it's the other way
around. Even though both upset me. Sorry, such is reality, and I'd rather
see no one die... but yeah, I won't lie, I'm more upset when it's Israelis,
and I'm sure you're more upset when it's Palestinians, Dan. Wish it weren't
so. And yeah, propaganda plays a big role in that, certainly. But that works
both ways, mind you.
The attacks Larry is condemning (or at least that *I* condemn) are mostly
*not* by the PLO but by the Hamas and the Hizbollah (forgive me if I
misspell those, I know them in Hebrew). *They* are terrorists in *my* eyes,
they are kids and adults detonating bombs in civilian centers. And yes, the
only reponse that Israel knows how to reply with is bombing them back. Dumb,
isn't it? I think so, too, sometimes. Then I recall that they turned down
peace agreements and that they will not rest until I, and every Jew in my
country, is either dead or evicted. That's where they lose 99% of my
sympathy. They still have that 1% (I can still sort-of see where they're
coming from, although I completely disagree with their methods of action),
and they could regain all of it back in a second if they only asked to sit
down and talk.
> The PLO is a terrorist group led by Yassir Arafat, who uses
> children as terrorists. The Israelis have a right to live there because the
> Bible says it's their home. By the way, the earth is flat, the moon is made
> from cheese and stars are just pinholes in the curtain of night.
Really? Good to know. ;-)
As for the first two sentences, I disagree with them as much as you do. The
Israelis have as much "right" to live there as the Palestinians do, or
anyone else, for that matter. At times of my life I was totally going for
"let's abandon the institution of country/state, it's a disgusting thing to
have" line... and I still have my relapses.
("Imagine there's no country / It isn't hard to do / Nothing to live, or die
for / And no religion too // Imagine all the people, living life in peace...")
But I digress. As much as I love being a utopian, I have to inject a bit of
reality into my system every now and then.
> I respect your right to your opinions on the Middle East and I have no
> intent, nor do I have any right, to suppress you. But I will continue to
> exercise my right to debate whenever you express your opinions on this
> matter. That is my promise to you!
That's great (honestly!!) and please keep doing so. But just be wary about
telling people they are not peaceful, and making generalizations - that part
really got to me. And since, I think, you hate hate as much as I do, the
best thing to do is to pay attention to things like that.
I've already stayed up an hour more than I expected, and my fingers are
shaking... ;-) So good night!
-Shiri (an idealist as much as possible, but realistic as well)
|
|
Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
|
| (...) Geez, this is really becoming the thread that would not die! And I can see that some are getting overheated about some of the points being made. MY point would be to suggest that no one will get much closer to peace until everyone concerned is (...) (24 years ago, 7-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: A question of remembrance...
|
| Hi Shiri, Alsalaam aleikum! Shalom! I genuinely appreciate the olive branch. :) I try not to generalize, but I'm guilty of trying a few shortcuts in my last post. It seems I unwittingly made a point about generalizations because most, dare I say (...) (24 years ago, 7-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A question of remembrance...
|
| (...) But you obviously favor the Israelis, right? Okay, let's consider the Zionist story regarding Israel as the "home of the Jews" and their claim to distant Semetic bloodlines (fraudulent, by the way). Considering Judaism is a Semetic religion (...) (24 years ago, 7-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
|
197 Messages in This Thread:
(Inline display suppressed due to large size. Click Dots below to view.)
- Entire Thread on One Page:
- Nested:
All | Brief | Compact | Dots
Linear:
All | Brief | Compact
This Message and its Replies on One Page:
- Nested:
All | Brief | Compact | Dots
Linear:
All | Brief | Compact
|
|
|
|
