Subject:
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Re: A question of remembrance...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 7 May 2001 05:28:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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1013 times
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Shiri's right. This isn't much of a debate (most that involve Scott A. in
some significant way tend not to be) and neither of us are moving much. But
I just can't let a couple of points slide.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes:
> But you obviously favor the Israelis, right?
For about the 9th time, no. It is not favoritism to say one side is worse
than another. You didn't get, or chose to ignore, my Stalin/Hitler analogy.
Saying either is "worse" does not mean you are a proponent of the other.
Further, as soon as you start initiating force you give up claim to
legitimacy. Both sides have done so, both sides have therefore lost that
claim in my book. (Just as McVeigh forever tarnished the claim freedom
loving citizens have against the Butcher of Waco, Murderer Reno... what he
did is inexcusable no matter how great the provocation.)
> Don't kid yourself, Larry, you've made it clear from the beginning who's
> side you are on.
Yes I have, but you're not listening. I'm *NOT* on either "side".
Clearly this hits home with you, it may well be one of your most important
issues. It's not one of mine, though, so I yield primacy of passion.
Normally you are much more analytical than this but I can see that analysis
does sometimes fall by the wayside when it's your primary issue.
> I have given you fact after fact to the contrary, why be so
> stubborn?
>
> > There are other fights closer to home that I consider more important. Saying >one side is worse than the other is NOT "supporting the other side".
>
> YES IT IS when it's an opinion gleaned from LIES not FACTS! This IS close to
> home because America pours billions of our tax dollars
Now here is something I can agree with. I see no reason to fund Israel. Or
anyone else for that matter, at this point in time. Let the other nations of
the world make their own way. Our foreign aid, at this point in time, does
much more harm than good to all who receive it. (right after WW II was a far
different time, to forestall someone bringing up the Marshall Plan)
> to support the
> oppressive Israeli government, guilty of countless human rights and
> international law violations! This IS close to home because the blatantly
> pro-Zionist media continually dehumanizes Arabs and portrays them as
> "swarthy" villians and tricksters in movies, TV shows and video games. Is
> this the image you want your children to grow up with? Will my son also be
> beaten and called "camel jockey" like his dad?
Come off it. I have never said any such thing. I can condemn the PLO (and
Israel as well) without saying anything bad about the ordinary Palestinian
(and Israeli) Joe in the street.
I challenge you to find any instance where I have EVER advocated that sort
of behaviour against ordinary citizens (not terrorists, mind you, but
ordinary citizens). The most I can hold ordinary citizens to blame for is
not speaking out against their government. And I don't do even that without
feeling a quite bit hypocritical and remembering that my mother did not
speak out against Nazism... instead she and her brother both volunteered for
the army, to my eternal shame.
So I don't feel that ordinary citizens shojhld be dehumanized or mistreated
because of the actions of their governments.
If I felt that way, given my many statements about the evils of communism,
would I have hosted an exchange student from Russia? (and helped her come
back to go to college... I attended her commencement from Grand Rapids
Community College on Friday and she graduated with the highest honors (the
girl was wearing something like 8 medals and ribbons etc)... pardon me for
bragging but that girl IS smart)
If I felt that way, given my many statements about how bad the Spaniards
were in colonising the US and how bad Catholicism is would I have hosted not
one but TWO exchange students from Spain last summer while Julia was
visiting her parents in Novkutznetzk?
I don't think so. I can dredge up more examples if you like but I'm tired
and have an early meeting with clients tomorrow.
DO NOT use that argument with me, it is beneath your dignity. Argue on merit
or not at all. I'm rather disappointed in you for that one, Dan.
++Lar
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) The debate has not moved on Larry as you have failed to justify your "far worse" comment. Instead you squirm, muddy the water and make cheap shots like the one above. (...) If the PLO is "far worse" than the Israelis, are the Israelis not far (...) (23 years ago, 7-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) Then for the 10th time, YES IT IS when the opinion is biased, gained from pro-Zionist media. What part of that do you not understand? Stop pretending that you are somehow open minded or unbiased about the Middle East. Name ONE Arabic newspaper (...) (23 years ago, 7-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) But you obviously favor the Israelis, right? Okay, let's consider the Zionist story regarding Israel as the "home of the Jews" and their claim to distant Semetic bloodlines (fraudulent, by the way). Considering Judaism is a Semetic religion (...) (23 years ago, 7-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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