Subject:
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Re: A question of remembrance...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 7 May 2001 07:36:02 GMT
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Viewed:
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1463 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> Shiri's right. This isn't much of a debate (most that involve Scott A. in
> some significant way tend not to be) and neither of us are moving much. But
> I just can't let a couple of points slide.
The debate has not moved on Larry as you have failed to justify your "far
worse" comment. Instead you squirm, muddy the water and make cheap shots like
the one above.
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes:
>
> > But you obviously favor the Israelis, right?
>
> For about the 9th time, no. It is not favoritism to say one side is worse
> than another. You didn't get, or chose to ignore, my Stalin/Hitler analogy.
> Saying either is "worse" does not mean you are a proponent of the other.
If the PLO is "far worse" than the Israelis, are the Israelis not far better
than the PLO????
>
> Further, as soon as you start initiating force you give up claim to
> legitimacy. Both sides have done so, both sides have therefore lost that
> claim in my book. (Just as McVeigh forever tarnished the claim freedom
> loving citizens have against the Butcher of Waco, Murderer Reno... what he
> did is inexcusable no matter how great the provocation.)
>
> > Don't kid yourself, Larry, you've made it clear from the beginning who's
> > side you are on.
>
> Yes I have, but you're not listening. I'm *NOT* on either "side".
>
> Clearly this hits home with you, it may well be one of your most important
> issues. It's not one of mine, though, so I yield primacy of passion.
> Normally you are much more analytical than this but I can see that analysis
> does sometimes fall by the wayside when it's your primary issue.
I fail to see how you can criticise Dan's thinking when you have made
statements which have prolonged this debate... but can not justify them in any
way. Come on Larry tell us:
i) Why are the PLO "far worse"?
ii) And just what the terrorists you consigned to be "slapped down"?
>
> > I have given you fact after fact to the contrary, why be so
> > stubborn?
> >
> > > There are other fights closer to home that I consider more important. Saying
> one side is worse than the other is NOT "supporting the other side".
> >
> > YES IT IS when it's an opinion gleaned from LIES not FACTS! This IS close to
> > home because America pours billions of our tax dollars
>
> Now here is something I can agree with. I see no reason to fund Israel. Or
> anyone else for that matter, at this point in time. Let the other nations of
> the world make their own way. Our foreign aid, at this point in time, does
> much more harm than good to all who receive it. (right after WW II was a far
> different time, to forestall someone bringing up the Marshall Plan)
>
> > to support the
> > oppressive Israeli government, guilty of countless human rights and
> > international law violations! This IS close to home because the blatantly
> > pro-Zionist media continually dehumanizes Arabs and portrays them as
> > "swarthy" villians and tricksters in movies, TV shows and video games.
I agree.
By calling the PLO "far worse" without being able to justify it, I would say it
is suporting the other Israeli government.
Scott A
> > Is
> > this the image you want your children to grow up with? Will my son also be
> > beaten and called "camel jockey" like his dad?
>
> Come off it. I have never said any such thing. I can condemn the PLO (and
> Israel as well) without saying anything bad about the ordinary Palestinian
> (and Israeli) Joe in the street.
>
> I challenge you to find any instance where I have EVER advocated that sort
> of behaviour against ordinary citizens (not terrorists, mind you, but
> ordinary citizens). The most I can hold ordinary citizens to blame for is
> not speaking out against their government. And I don't do even that without
> feeling a quite bit hypocritical and remembering that my mother did not
> speak out against Nazism... instead she and her brother both volunteered for
> the army, to my eternal shame.
>
> So I don't feel that ordinary citizens shojhld be dehumanized or mistreated
> because of the actions of their governments.
>
> If I felt that way, given my many statements about the evils of communism,
> would I have hosted an exchange student from Russia? (and helped her come
> back to go to college... I attended her commencement from Grand Rapids
> Community College on Friday and she graduated with the highest honors (the
> girl was wearing something like 8 medals and ribbons etc)... pardon me for
> bragging but that girl IS smart)
>
> If I felt that way, given my many statements about how bad the Spaniards
> were in colonising the US and how bad Catholicism is would I have hosted not
> one but TWO exchange students from Spain last summer while Julia was
> visiting her parents in Novkutznetzk?
>
> I don't think so. I can dredge up more examples if you like but I'm tired
> and have an early meeting with clients tomorrow.
>
> DO NOT use that argument with me, it is beneath your dignity. Argue on merit
> or not at all. I'm rather disappointed in you for that one, Dan.
>
> ++Lar
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) That's ridiculous. That's like saying "you think the KKK is far worse than the Black Panthers, so you must support the Black Panthers", which is obviously NOT true (in my case, anyways). -- | Tom Stangl, iPlanet Web Server Technical Support (...) (24 years ago, 7-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A question of remembrance...
|
| Shiri's right. This isn't much of a debate (most that involve Scott A. in some significant way tend not to be) and neither of us are moving much. But I just can't let a couple of points slide. (...) For about the 9th time, no. It is not favoritism (...) (24 years ago, 7-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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