Subject:
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Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.general
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Date:
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Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:36:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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2565 times
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blisses@worldnet.att.net (Steve Bliss) writes:
> [...]
> I'm more concerned with the technical details than societal issues,
> because the resolution of the technical will affect and even determine
> the resolution of the societal. [...]
excellent key point!
> Lugnet should _not_ recognize the Newsgroups header in RTL-sourced
> messages. If a message comes from Usenet::rec.toys.lego, it should
> only be carried in lugnet's copy of rec.toys.lego. This will prevent
> rogue RTL postings from spilling into other lugnet groups.
Let me see if I correctly understand what you're saying. In other words,
if something originates outside of this newsserver, the newsserver should
map/truncate
Newsgroups: rec.toys.foo,rec.toys.foo,comp.lang.foo,lugnet.foo
to simply
Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego
before injecting the article? I totally agree with that.
What about something posted to this server? What should the server do with
Newsgroups: lugnet.general,lugnet.build,rec.toys.lego
when it sends the message out? If the incoming filter chops apart
crossposting, I think the outgoing filter has to also -- otherwise there
will be of cases of people not seeing follow-ups to their own messages,
which will be very frustrating for them.
Now, if both the incoming and the outgoing filters are chopping apart
crossposting, does it mean that messages crossposted have to appear in two
locations with actually different Newsgroups headers? (I think so.) If
that's true, I think it's going against the NNTP specs (maybe not, but it's
very odd anyway). It would also waste disk space because crossposting is
accomplished with hard links on the server. Worse, a thread could actually
split into two threads, one carrying on in newsgroup A and the other
carrying on in newsgroup B.
I -think- (correct me if I'm wrong) that we have just shown that -any-
crossposting between lugnet.* newsgroups and non-lugnet.* newsgroups is
asking for trouble. That is, even though crossposting could potentially be
very useful, it should't be allowed. It's not immediately obvious, but it
can be demonstrated through logical argument. (Someone double-check my
logic!)
So... Do you think it would be accepted or flamed by people if
rec.toys.lego were carried here, but you couldn't crosspost between a
lugnet.* group and RTL? The server would actually have to -reject- the
message.
> Lugnet's normal html/binary filtering should _not_ be applied to
> RTL-sourced messages, except possibly for extremely large binary
> posts. {In usenet, the root problem with small binary posts is that
> they are still binary, and show up in statistical reports that
> news-admins use to determine how a particular group should be handled
> on their server -- short expiration, long expiration, etc. On lugnet,
> the main problem with small binaries is that people have been
> netiquette'ed to abhor binary posts on NNTP newsgroups. All this is
> strictly IMO, of course.)
Agreed -- no filtering as long as the ng isn't archived. (And DejaNews
already archives RTL and has it going back for like 3 years...)
> Only individuals who have signed up to be able to post on lugnet
> should be able to post on RTL through lugnet. And any messages posted
> to RTL via lugnet would have to follow lugnet's restriction as to
> content format (no html, no binaries).
Agreed 100%
> The X-Real-Life-Name header should _not_ be applied to messages
> propagated out to usenet server(s). Otherwise, lugnet'ers would be
> under an onus that would not be applied to other RTL-posters. Not very
> important here on lugnet.com/news/, but very important when these
> lugnet-sourced messages are read by Joe Spammer on news.myisp.com.
Good point! And straightforward to implement. Removing that header line
before broadcasting the message outwards is IMHO a step backward in
community-building but only a tiny one compared to the larger picture, and
there aren't really too many people who aren't using their full real-life
name anyway in their From lines.
> I think it would be very cool if RTL-sourced messages could be
> auto-directed to different lugnet groups, based on subject content and
> body format, but I can see that that would require the carrier to be
> making judgements about RTL posts, and that could possibly be a
> trouble area. But still, having all messages from RTL which are
> obviously sales-related go to (the lugnet-only) rec.toys.lego.market
> ng would be pretty cool. There could be a little hierarchy of RTL
> ng's. Postings made to any of these groups would go back to usenet on
> rec.toys.lego.
>
> On lugnet:
>
> rec.toys.lego
> rec.toys.lego.market
> rec.toys.lego.spam <-- followups set to rec.toys.lego
> rec.toys.lego.binaries <-- followups set to rec.toys.lego
>
> Of course, splitting RTL messages out this way would be mostly a
> service for lugnet'ers, so they could avoid particular types of
> messages, without lugnet.com actually filtering (aka, 'censoring') any
> messages.
>
> Wow. How did I end up way over here?
You wanna take on writing that AI filter and providing tech support for it?
=:*)p
--Todd
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| (...) Hmmm. I'm not sure I like that. If I go to the trouble of explicitly saying where a message should go (and if it's somewhere that that message has every right to be) it seems like the server is making a mistake if it loses some of my (...) (26 years ago, 30-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
| | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| (...) Actually, I just meant it should just *ignore* the extra entries in the Newsgroups header. But that doesn't make sense, especially after your further discussion about the evils of having separated threads spawned from cross-posted messages. (...) (26 years ago, 30-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
| | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| I'm thinking really hard on this, but I'm not sure there is any _clean_ solution other than allowing at-will cross-posting between RTL and lugnet groups. This is because: A) NNTP guidelines indicate that the Newsgroup header should always be (...) (26 years ago, 30-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| [Once upon a time, lehman@javanet.com (Todd Lehman) wrote about hosting RTL on lugnet.com/news/.] Apparently, I picked the wrong time to have a major national holiday separate me from my lugnet-devoted newsreader. :/ I'll make my points brief. They (...) (26 years ago, 30-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
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