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In lugnet.admin.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.admin.general, Calum Tsang wrote:
> > In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Todd Lehman wrote:
> >
> > > Chris, why are you doing this? Why are you attempting to undermine LUGNET
> > > administration? What do you hope to gain by it? What do your friends in
> > > rtlToronto think of your antics? You think it's fun to run a contest that
> > > ridicules someone?
> >
> > First, this has nothing to do with rtlToronto. Some of our members may dislike
> > Larry, some may like him. In general, the sentiment up here tends to lean to
> > the former from what I can tell. Regardless, it has nothing to do with the group
> > officially. Like all these administrators who feel they can take the hat on and
> > off, Chris's Contest is with the hat off, defintely.
> >
> > That said, Chris can do whatever he wants in his posting of of such a contest.
>
> Elsewhere he can, subject to the rules and regulations, if any, of whatever
> place he does so. Not here. Here he is subject to the ToS like everyone else.
> So, to say that "he can do whatever he wants" is false, unless you add the
> codicil, "and face the consequences, if any".
>
> I am not among those that say that what happens elsewhere has bearing on what
> actions are taken here. But the initial post in this thread, without regard to
> actions or statements anywhere else, is in my judgement, and that of others,
> egregious baiting and is in violation of the ToS.
>
> > Is it hurting Lugnet? Perhaps. Are the administrators in question hurting
> > Lugnet? I defintely can see that.
> >
> > These past few weeks,
>
> Weeks?
Yes. Weeks. This has been brewing for weeks, It only piqued in the last few
days. But people have been bickering (from both sides) on this topic for weeks.
>
> I said to you years ago that rtlT (the way your group wants to operate on
> LUGNET) doesn't necessarily fit the charter, at least not exactly, and that you
> would have to abide by the ToS of LUGNET just like everyone else. I'm not seeing
> evidence of any fundamental agreement with that notion, that the rules apply to
> everyone, and that they agree to abide, at least from some people that are
> regular users of rtlT.
>
> > I've been requested to move rtlToronto completely off of
> > Lugnet, an action I don't want to do, because I think Lugnet is THE center of
> > the AFOL community when it comes to discussion. I've heard comments to the
> > effect of "this is censorship" or "this is the end of Lugnet" or "just wait
> > until these crazy religious 'let's save the children' Americans take over".
> > Some of the members here don't feel comfortable with being on Lugnet anymore,
> > and that's directly due to the actions of the administration in place.
>
> You should vote with your feet, then. I seriously mean that, and not in an
> unfriendly way. If you (or some of your members) cannot or will not abide, and
> cannot or will not work WITHIN the system for change, WHILE abiding, you should
> seek another venue, one more condusive to how you want to do things. That's not
> a slam, it's honest advice. There are many venues now, and more all the time.
> LUGNET is not for everyone, in particular it is not for those that cannot or
> will not abide.
>
> > What do you want us to do? This is Chris' attempt at regime change.
> > Offer us a better solution if you don't think this one is appropriate.
>
> If you seriously think this is the best solution you could come up with to
> working for change, I am pretty much at a loss. A better solution than publicly
> ridiculing someone because they showed frustration? You really are unable to
> think of one? I pity you.
All your words are on the good list, but your tone is clearly provacative. Do
you want to solve the issue, or continue the fight.
I would be highly offended if you wrote this to me. I have a lot of respect for
you Larry, but I certainly do not appreciate the tone you've been using lately.
From where I'm sitting you feel like a bully. Admins should not be bullys. You
were horribly wronged. You were personally and unfairly attacked, but it is
harder to keep that in mind when you put on your admin hat and rip people apart
like this. It feels to me like you have a lot of pent up energy on this issue,
and it is coming out in a way that is unfitting an admin. Please make sure you
remember to take your admin hat off when berating people like this.
Letters like this are what clearly show to me that this topic is not one sided.
Respectfully,
Kevin
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Message has 1 Reply:
Message is in Reply To:
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| (...) Elsewhere he can, subject to the rules and regulations, if any, of whatever place he does so. Not here. Here he is subject to the ToS like everyone else. So, to say that "he can do whatever he wants" is false, unless you add the codicil, "and (...) (20 years ago, 3-Mar-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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