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Does anyone know how long the EMPIRE lastest before it fell apart at the
battle of Yavin? Seems to me that it was a very short time no more than 50
years.
I'm basing this off the fact that in SW EPII the EMPIRE is NOT offical there
yet. The 'movemnet' for the OLD REPUBLIC to topple is going on. So perhaps
in EP III that is where we might see the offical start of the Empire? In SW
ROJ luke is about what Late 20s? So you figure the empire has ONLY been
around for as long as luke has been alive. So perhaps some 30-40 years?
Seems like such a such time compared to the OLD REPUBLIC?
Any thoughs..
AHui
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In lugnet.starwars, Ahui Herrera writes:
> Does anyone know how long the EMPIRE lastest before it fell apart at the
> battle of Yavin?
You mean Battle of Endor? :)
> Seems to me that it was a very short time no more than 50
> years.
>
> I'm basing this off the fact that in SW EPII the EMPIRE is NOT offical there
> yet. The 'movemnet' for the OLD REPUBLIC to topple is going on. So perhaps
> in EP III that is where we might see the offical start of the Empire? In SW
> ROJ luke is about what Late 20s? So you figure the empire has ONLY been
> around for as long as luke has been alive. So perhaps some 30-40 years?
I'd use Luke/Leia as a guage. I'm assuming that they're conceived either
just before or just after the Empire is formed. Bear in mind Luke & Leia
were supposed to be like 16-18 when SW4 starts... then 2 to maybe as much as
5 years later is the final Death Star II battle... so the twins are 18-23 by
the end? So that puts the empire between maybe 16-25 years old? Pretty darn
young.
> Seems like such a such time compared to the OLD REPUBLIC?
Most definitely... good question might be, how old is the Sith?
DaveE
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>
> Most definitely... good question might be, how old is the Sith?
>
> DaveE
That is a tough question, but looking at the information on Starwars.com,
and some of the other publications relating to Starwars, it must be
thousands of years old.
Especially when you're talking about the GREAT SITH WAR, like well over 500
years ago.
Benjamin Medinets
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In lugnet.starwars, Benjamin Medinets writes:
>
> >
> > Most definitely... good question might be, how old is the Sith?
> >
> > DaveE
>
> That is a tough question, but looking at the information on Starwars.com,
> and some of the other publications relating to Starwars, it must be
> thousands of years old.
> Especially when you're talking about the GREAT SITH WAR, like well over 500
> years ago.
The Great Sith Wars was like 4,000 years before Ep4.
> Benjamin Medinets
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In lugnet.starwars, Kai Brodersen writes:
> In lugnet.starwars, Benjamin Medinets writes:
> >
> > >
> > > Most definitely... good question might be, how old is the Sith?
> > >
> > > DaveE
> >
> > That is a tough question, but looking at the information on Starwars.com,
> > and some of the other publications relating to Starwars, it must be
> > thousands of years old.
> > Especially when you're talking about the GREAT SITH WAR, like well over 500
> > years ago.
Well I did say "WELL OVER" :)
> The Great Sith Wars was like 4,000 years before Ep4.
Thanks for giving us a more realistic figure...I seen the information on
StarWars.Com, but couldn't get a finger on the amount of years.
Benjamin Medinets
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In lugnet.starwars, David Eaton writes:
> In lugnet.starwars, Ahui Herrera writes:
> > Does anyone know how long the EMPIRE lastest before it fell apart at the
> > battle of Yavin?
>
> You mean Battle of Endor? :)
>
> > Seems to me that it was a very short time no more than 50
> > years.
> >
> > I'm basing this off the fact that in SW EPII the EMPIRE is NOT offical there
> > yet. The 'movemnet' for the OLD REPUBLIC to topple is going on. So perhaps
> > in EP III that is where we might see the offical start of the Empire? In SW
> > ROJ luke is about what Late 20s? So you figure the empire has ONLY been
> > around for as long as luke has been alive. So perhaps some 30-40 years?
Luke is born at the END of Ep3 which is 4 years after Ep2.
> I'd use Luke/Leia as a guage. I'm assuming that they're conceived either
> just before or just after the Empire is formed. Bear in mind Luke & Leia
> were supposed to be like 16-18 when SW4 starts... then 2 to maybe as much as
> 5 years later is the final Death Star II battle... so the twins are 18-23 by
> the end? So that puts the empire between maybe 16-25 years old? Pretty darn
> young.
>
> > Seems like such a such time compared to the OLD REPUBLIC?
>
> Most definitely... good question might be, how old is the Sith?
Stih go way way way way back.
The sith were formed after a splinter of them broke away from the Jedi Order
and were exiled from the Republic. They settled on Korriban where they
interbred with Jedi so that they were insepreable (according to
starwars.com. After the Great Sith War they were never heard again until
things started to cook with Naboo. The cool thing about Sith is that only 2
can exist at a time, a Master and an Apprentice.
kai
> DaveE
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In lugnet.starwars, Ahui Herrera writes:
> Does anyone know how long the EMPIRE lastest before it fell apart at the
> battle of Yavin? Seems to me that it was a very short time no more than 50
> years.
>
> I'm basing this off the fact that in SW EPII the EMPIRE is NOT offical there
> yet. The 'movemnet' for the OLD REPUBLIC to topple is going on. So perhaps
> in EP III that is where we might see the offical start of the Empire? In SW
> ROJ luke is about what Late 20s? So you figure the empire has ONLY been
> around for as long as luke has been alive. So perhaps some 30-40 years?
> Seems like such a such time compared to the OLD REPUBLIC?
How long did Hitler and the Third Riech last?
There is some context in history that Large Evil Dictatorships only have a life
as long as their origional Leader. Hitler dies so does the Third Riech...
Emporer dies so does the Empire.
Sure you can find some exceptions to the rule but to me a 30-40 year lifespan
for the Empire seems right.
Eric Kingsley (who is happy not to have seen Jar Jar in any of the trailers so
far...)
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In lugnet.starwars, Eric Kingsley writes:
> There is some context in history that Large Evil Dictatorships only have a life
> as long as their origional Leader. Hitler dies so does the Third Riech...
> Emporer dies so does the Empire.
>
> Sure you can find some exceptions to the rule but to me a 30-40 year lifespan
> for the Empire seems right.
Just to give an exception, the Soviet Union survived through several
leaders, about 80 years. Here it was a party rather than an individual
leader. Slightly different than a "Large Evil Dictatorship," but related.
Or you could go with the Roman Empire as a model for the SW universe. It
starts with a republic, then various emporers rise up. That phase lasted a
lot longer than any given emporer.
> Eric Kingsley (who is happy not to have seen Jar Jar in any of the trailers so
> far...)
Sorry to disappoint, but he's on the edges of a couple of scenes.
Definitely not prominent, though.
Bruce
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In lugnet.starwars, Ahui Herrera writes:
> Does anyone know how long the EMPIRE lastest before it fell apart at the
> battle of Yavin? Seems to me that it was a very short time no more than 50
> years.
>
> I'm basing this off the fact that in SW EPII the EMPIRE is NOT offical there
> yet. The 'movemnet' for the OLD REPUBLIC to topple is going on. So perhaps
> in EP III that is where we might see the offical start of the Empire? In SW
> ROJ luke is about what Late 20s? So you figure the empire has ONLY been
> around for as long as luke has been alive. So perhaps some 30-40 years?
> Seems like such a such time compared to the OLD REPUBLIC?
>
> Any thoughs..
> AHui
Hmmm *whips out his Star Wars Timeline*
In Ep4 Luke and Leia are 18--YES thats right (well atleast what the
"LucasFilm apporved Essentail Guide to Vehicles and Vessles"
But the fall of the Republic is 29 years before Ep4.
Now the in Ep6 the fall of Empire occurs. And that is 4 years after Ep4.
So the Empire only lasted about 33 years according to the timeline.
The Old Republic was formed 25,000 years before Ep4. So the Old Republic
lasted around 24,971 years.
Now there are a lot of other timeline facts that I could drone about, but
that wouldn't pretain to the question.
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In lugnet.starwars, Kai Brodersen writes:
> In Ep4 Luke and Leia are 18--YES thats right • ...
> Now the in Ep6 the fall of Empire occurs. And that is 4 years after Ep4.
So-- assuming that, L&L are 22 at the end of ROTJ...
> But the fall of the Republic is 29 years before Ep4.
So, the fall of the Republic is 7 years before L&L are born...
[snip from other post]
> Luke is born at the END of Ep3 which is 4 years after Ep2.
So-- I can only assume that Ep2-3 cover about a 7 year span? Do we know how
much time Ep2 or Ep3 cover individually?
DaveE
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I can find it acceptible that the Empire only lasted 30 years or so. But
really I can't buy the Old Republic lasting some 20,000+ years. Given the
volitile nature of Humans, perhaps maybe 200 some years. Heck, our little
planet here, with only ONE species to govern and be governed by, hasnt had
any nation that has lasted as long as written history yet (bear in mind that
China the nation is NOT the same as China the culture or China the country
even!). Saying the Old Republic lasted some 20,000 years before ONE person
with enough greed to topple it came along is, well, rather a fantasy...
Which leads to another thought - if the Jedi kept the peace for "thousands
of years", how was it the Empire was able to hunt them down and destroy the
order? What previously prevented the Old Republic from into splintering into
however many mini-empires as there are space-faring races?
Think - how did Julius Ceaser came to power in the Roman Republic (after
all, HE made it into the Roman Empire)? How did Adolf Hitler come to power
in Germany? How did Saddam Hussein come to power in Iraq? What KEPT them in
power?
In lugnet.starwars, Kai Brodersen writes:
> In lugnet.starwars, Ahui Herrera writes:
> > Does anyone know how long the EMPIRE lastest before it fell apart at the
> > battle of Yavin? Seems to me that it was a very short time no more than 50
> > years.
> >
> > I'm basing this off the fact that in SW EPII the EMPIRE is NOT offical there
> > yet. The 'movemnet' for the OLD REPUBLIC to topple is going on. So perhaps
> > in EP III that is where we might see the offical start of the Empire? In SW
> > ROJ luke is about what Late 20s? So you figure the empire has ONLY been
> > around for as long as luke has been alive. So perhaps some 30-40 years?
> > Seems like such a such time compared to the OLD REPUBLIC?
> >
> > Any thoughs..
> > AHui
>
>
> Hmmm *whips out his Star Wars Timeline*
>
> In Ep4 Luke and Leia are 18--YES thats right (well atleast what the
> "LucasFilm apporved Essentail Guide to Vehicles and Vessles"
>
> But the fall of the Republic is 29 years before Ep4.
>
> Now the in Ep6 the fall of Empire occurs. And that is 4 years after Ep4.
>
> So the Empire only lasted about 33 years according to the timeline.
>
> The Old Republic was formed 25,000 years before Ep4. So the Old Republic
> lasted around 24,971 years.
>
>
> Now there are a lot of other timeline facts that I could drone about, but
> that wouldn't pretain to the question.
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Nice points, but I think it needs a little dash of My 2 Cents.
It is hard to buy over here as well (and I don't want to start a starwars
war) but according to an official LucasFilm LTD released book, there Old
Republic was formed 25,000 years before Ep4, and you know us Star Wars fans,
we have to follow everything exactly if it comes from George's mouth.
In lugnet.starwars, Mark Chittenden writes:
> I can find it acceptable that the Empire only lasted 30 years or so. But
> really I can't buy the Old Republic lasting some 20,000+ years.
It is hard to buy over here as well (and I don't want to start a starwars
war) but according to an official LucasFilm LTD released book, there Old
Republic was formed 25,000 years before Ep4, and you know us Star Wars fans,
we have to follow everything exactly if it comes from George's mouth. If
fandom was allowed to just run around blurting out anything, why Han Solo
could be Leia's sister, and their offspring were hideous metally ill
children. Think of the anarchy! :)
> Given the
> volatile nature of Humans, perhaps maybe 200 some years. Heck, our little
> planet here, with only ONE species to govern and be governed by, hasn’t had
> any nation that has lasted as long as written history yet (bear in mind that
> China the nation is NOT the same as China the culture or China the country
> even!). Saying the Old Republic lasted some 20,000 years before ONE person
> with enough greed to topple it came along is, well, rather a fantasy...
Well are you saying that Star Wars is a "Non-Fiction" book? That's why it's
science fiction, so people like me who hate being stuck on one planet can
express their hopes and dreams of humanity (although I wouldn't call the
Empire a hope for humanity, besides, it already happened along long time ago ;)
But this man that toppled the Old Republic was not simply one man. He was a
Sith. And the Jedis and the rest of the galaxy didn't know it. I won't go
into details coughspoilerepisodetwocough, but the Jedis were so pompous that
they simply weren't ready. Palpy was simply a genius at doing bad things.
> Which leads to another thought - if the Jedi kept the peace for "thousands
> of years", how was it the Empire was able to hunt them down and destroy the
> order?
The Jedi themselves were weak. The Sith had not shown their red and black
painted faces for over 4,000 years. If mankind had not been exposed to the
common cold for 4,000 years, we would all be dead or extremely sick if we
caught it. The Sith were a disease. And Palpy struck at the right time.
Plus Palpatine knew who all the Jedi were. He was the Supreme Chancellor of
the Republic, he had ties to everything like an Italian Maffia.
> What previously prevented the Old Republic from into splintering into
> however many mini-empires as there are space-faring races?
This might spoil a little***BEWARE***
The Republic was peaceful. Only until Ep2 do we see the republic spending
any cash on military(well the Great Sith War was another one BUT). The Jedi
were the only soldiers. And everyone respected them too (except for the
Sith on Korriban). Look at it this way (yes yes, real life to sci-fiction
comparison), lets say the United States is the Old Republic. None of the
states can leave because there are laws in place preventing them to do so.
Only an act of Congress(The Galactic Senate) could allow that or military
action, like the separatists did. And even at that the Separatists were
just a bunch of hoo-ha made up by Palpatine to lure the Jedis into a trap.
He bought a clone army for himself, but on the other side IIRC, he bought on
for himself and destroyed the Jedi that way. Besides if the state (or
splinter) separated from the others, it would have to be completely
self-sufficient. And note even today as it was in Star Wars times, it is
hard to do that. I am sure you can figure out why ;)
The Jedi themselves were weak. The Sith had not shown their red and black
painted faces for over 4,000 years. If mankind had not been exposed to the
common cold for 4,000 years, we would all be dead or extremely sick if we
caught it. The Sith were a disease. And Palpy struck at the right time and
the Jedi didn't know what hit 'em.
> Think - how did Julius Caesar came to power in the Roman Republic (after
> all, HE made it into the Roman Empire)?
Well sota, Julius helped but he wasn't the greatest. He was one of many
caesars, and even before that there was a democratic society which ruled
over the many states and provenances.(called the Early Republic)
see www.roman-empire.net for more on that.
And also a little fun history fact. Take Palatine Hill (where the earliest
known settlement in Rome is thought to be) and add a P after the L. What do
you get? Palpatine--Emperor of the Empire.
> How did Adolf Hitler come to power
> in Germany? How did Saddam Hussein come to power in Iraq? What KEPT them in
> power?
What kept them in power was an iron fist. LIKE Palpatine. But look at
Hitler's reign. Only about 30 years--like the Empire (Ok ok so that is
comparing it to real life). Sooner or later people are going to start
standing up to unjustice and rebel.
Nice points, but I think it needs a little dash of My 2 Cents
Kai
<snip>
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> Look at it this way (yes yes, real life to sci-fiction
> comparison), lets say the United States is the Old Republic. None of the
> states can leave because there are laws in place preventing them to do so.
I'm sorry, but the reason why no state can leave is because the Union will send
an army in and occupy them. (reference THE CIVIL WAR, 1861-1865) Unity is
maintained by, 1)common interests and 2)military might.
> Only an act of Congress(The Galactic Senate) could allow that or military
> action, like the separatists did. And even at that the Separatists were
> just a bunch of hoo-ha made up by Palpatine to lure the Jedis into a trap.
> He bought a clone army for himself, but on the other side IIRC, he bought on
> for himself and destroyed the Jedi that way. Besides if the state (or
> splinter) separated from the others, it would have to be completely
> self-sufficient.
I think a planet or a system could be self-sufficient. why not? we are.
> And note even today as it was in Star Wars times, it is
> hard to do that. I am sure you can figure out why ;) • snip.
> > How did Adolf Hitler come to power
> > in Germany? How did Saddam Hussein come to power in Iraq? What KEPT them in
> > power?
>
> What kept them in power was an iron fist. LIKE Palpatine. But look at
> Hitler's reign. Only about 30 years--like the Empire (Ok ok so that is
> comparing it to real life). Sooner or later people are going to start
> standing up to unjustice and rebel.
umm.. try Hitler was in power for 13 years. The way you stay in power is
figure out who your constituents are, and make life as cozy as possible for
them. then, figure out who your most powerful enemies are, and try to make
them like you at least a little. then, crush everyone else as much as possible
so that they could never get to the point of resisting.
The big thing is to never offend anyone with the power to beat you. That's why
hitler failed (attacking USSR and USA), and why Stalin remained in power (no
major war except WW2).
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In lugnet.starwars, Leonard Hoffman writes:
> > Look at it this way (yes yes, real life to sci-fiction
> > comparison), lets say the United States is the Old Republic. None of the
> > states can leave because there are laws in place preventing them to do so.
>
> I'm sorry, but the reason why no state can leave is because the Union will send
> an army in and occupy them. (reference THE CIVIL WAR, 1861-1865) Unity is
> maintained by, 1)common interests and 2)military might.
Common good is a law/core-democratic value. :)) But as in Ep2 the Republic
sent in a ground force as well as trying to make negotiations.
> > Only an act of Congress(The Galactic Senate) could allow that or military
> > action, like the separatists did. And even at that the Separatists were
> > just a bunch of hoo-ha made up by Palpatine to lure the Jedis into a trap.
> > He bought a clone army for himself, but on the other side IIRC, he bought on
> > for himself and destroyed the Jedi that way. Besides if the state (or
> > splinter) separated from the others, it would have to be completely
> > self-sufficient.
>
> I think a planet or a system could be self-sufficient. why not? we are.
We are on the border line. Although we don't really need electronics, most
of them come from imports.
> > And note even today as it was in Star Wars times, it is
> > hard to do that. I am sure you can figure out why ;) • snip.
> > > How did Adolf Hitler come to power
> > > in Germany? How did Saddam Hussein come to power in Iraq? What KEPT them in
> > > power?
> >
> > What kept them in power was an iron fist. LIKE Palpatine. But look at
> > Hitler's reign. Only about 30 years--like the Empire (Ok ok so that is
> > comparing it to real life). Sooner or later people are going to start
> > standing up to unjustice and rebel.
>
> umm.. try Hitler was in power for 13 years. The way you stay in power is
> figure out who your constituents are, and make life as cozy as possible for
> them. then, figure out who your most powerful enemies are, and try to make
> them like you at least a little. then, crush everyone else as much as possible
> so that they could never get to the point of resisting.
>
> The big thing is to never offend anyone with the power to beat you. That's why
> hitler failed (attacking USSR and USA), and why Stalin remained in power (no
> major war except WW2).
Iron fist= killing people who might be able to take power away from you. :))
FUT: lugnet.off-topic.geek
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