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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, James Brown writes:
> In lugnet.market.theory, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > In lugnet.market.theory, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> >
> > [snip]
> > > faction n 1: a clique that seeks power usually through intrigue [syn: cabal,
> > > junta, junto, camarilla]
> >
> > Cool. The Cabal of Brick-layers...oh wait...isn't that the Masons?
> >
> > Anyone here play Illuminati by SJG? "The Bavarian Illuminati attempts to
> > control The LEGO Company with the assistance of 30-something nerds."
>
> :)
>
> "Relax, it's only 1's and 0's." - The Network
>
> Illuminati is one of my favorite non-serious games, ranking up there with
> Hunta (Yes, El Presidente!) and Family Business (Up against the wall!)
Hunta? I've played Junta (and just about every other game under the sun), but
not Hunta. :-)
>
> Although lately I've been getting hooked on silly games from a company called
> "Cheap-Ass Games", which produces funky little games with minimal
> packaging/overhead.
Tikal is my current favorite.
Bruce
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> Tikal is my current favorite.
Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
Chris
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
>
> > Tikal is my current favorite.
>
> Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
What, pray tell, is this? By the title, I'd adjudge it to do with railroads,
but is it a PC game, a board game, or what?
My faves in the RR genre:
PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun, although
Streetcar is also challenging
++Lar
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> >
> > > Tikal is my current favorite.
> >
> > Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
>
> What, pray tell, is this? By the title, I'd adjudge it to do with railroads,
> but is it a PC game, a board game, or what?
Board. It is of German origin. It's by Reiner Knizia and distributed in
English in the US by Rio Grande Games. It's a fairly abstract board game, but
is very very challenging. I most highly reccommend it.
> My faves in the RR genre:
>
> PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
I've played a few hundred hours of the new version and I think I agree with
you. The original has soul that the new one (which I have to give points to
for technical improvement) lacks. I do like the fact that there is a player
community on the net involved in creating maps and scenarios for the new game.
I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
> Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
> although Streetcar is also challenging
I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, 53(?...Imperial
India), and 35.
Eurorails is my fave of the crayon games, but Iron Dragon has some nice rules
additions. (I don't care for the foreman rules) Nippon (especially) or
Australian or Brittish rails both make better two player games than the large
boards.
I've played Silverton, and I think there are some good ideas burried in it, but
it's really boring and cumbersome. Union Pacific is pretty good - basically a
remake of Airlines.
My favorite 'train' board game is Iron Duke, but it's only a train game in the
way it's portrayed. It's doesn't feel trainy, and it's really a puzzle game.
Chris
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Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote:
> PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
I got a copy of the original from ebay for $2, on the grounds that I
remember spending hours with it years ago. To my great dismay, it seems to
_require_ a numeric keypad -- something my Libretto subnotebook lacks. :(
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > > Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
> >
> > What, pray tell, is this? By the title, I'd adjudge it to do with railroads,
> > but is it a PC game, a board game, or what?
>
> Board. It is of German origin. It's by Reiner Knizia and distributed in
> English in the US by Rio Grande Games. It's a fairly abstract board game, but
> is very very challenging. I most highly reccommend it.
Sounds good. Can you tell more about it? For example, I consider 1830 more
"abstract" than eurorails. One of the reasons I like 1830 is the stock market
manipulation. What do you mean by abstract..
For flat out beer and pretzels, it's tough to beat railway rivals... a bit of
business at the beginning about who gets through what passes first, and then
it's just pure luck.
> > My faves in the RR genre:
> >
> > PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
>
> I've played a few hundred hours of the new version and I think I agree with
> you. The original has soul that the new one (which I have to give points to
> for technical improvement) lacks. I do like the fact that there is a player
> community on the net involved in creating maps and scenarios for the new game.
I'll have to check that out.
> I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
I have a rather old CD at this point of this which we played a fair bit, but I
like the board version better, multiplayer on the PC was cumbersome, and single
player not as fun as against humans. (it's great to send someone up the river
with a well timed dump, and you can't do that against the PC players, they
can't be suckered...)
> > Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
> > although Streetcar is also challenging
>
> I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, • 53(?...Imperial
> India), and 35.
I've only played '29 (? the english) '30 and '35 (which I found quite hard to
fathom, I don't grok the intermediate stage). Why do you like '70?
> Eurorails is my fave of the crayon games, but Iron Dragon has some nice rules
> additions. (I don't care for the foreman rules) Nippon (especially) or
> Australian or Brittish rails both make better two player games than the large
> boards.
Yes. Between my brother in law and me, we have all of them except british
and the original, strangely enough, and Nippon is good for a fast 2 player.
> I've played Silverton, and I think there are some good ideas burried in it, • but
> it's really boring and cumbersome.
I've had good luck getting mundanes to try Silverton, better than say, empire
builder or rail baron, believe it or not. I agree with you, I too think there's
a good game in there somewhere struggling to get out. The notion of controlling
your own production and the strategic thinking about whether to go for one
mineral or a smattering of all, and the way the market responds to supply are
all good.
> Union Pacific is pretty good - basically a
> remake of Airlines.
>
> My favorite 'train' board game is Iron Duke, but it's only a train game in the
> way it's portrayed. It's doesn't feel trainy, and it's really a puzzle game.
I haven't played these. Have you played Streetcar?
I should also mention Transport Tycoon which I like a lot (and which you can
see the bones of in RollerCoaster Tycoon, my current fave PC game).
I just got the Lionel Trans Con PC game which I stumbled across at KBKids while
looking for other stuff, haven't tried it yet.
++Lar
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > Board. It is of German origin. It's by Reiner Knizia and distributed in
> > English in the US by Rio Grande Games. It's a fairly abstract board game, • but
> > is very very challenging. I most highly reccommend it.
>
> Sounds good. Can you tell more about it? For example, I consider 1830 more
> "abstract" than eurorails. One of the reasons I like 1830 is the stock market
> manipulation. What do you mean by abstract..
OK. Knizia's games (the ones that I know at least) seem to have a fairly small
ruleset by which the players manipulate stuff within a fixed space. These
game/rule/logic systems have a veneer of theme pasted on. Often, even the best
jobs of matching the game to the theme is somewhat transparent. In the case of
SR, you could be building aquaducts in old Rome and it would be fun.
Before I go on too much, you can see it at
http://www.riograndegames.com/ourgames.htm#Stephensons Rocket by following the
links around a bit.
Basically, the games board is of part of England. There are several train
companies (7?) operating, each has a stack of shares to one side of the board.
The point system is Pounds, but it's really just points. (You never spend
them.) Each round, you get to take two actions. There are three types of
actions you can take, either one each of two, or two of one of them. And you
very often really need to have just one extra action to complete your little
plan...
There are four kinds of hexes on the map. They are: blank hexes, railway
starting hexes, cities, and railway towns. The three possible actions are:
move a train of any one company (and take a share of that company) (this can be
vetoed (or attempted at any rate) by other share holders), play a station (on
any empty hex that's not adjacent to another station or to a railhead (as
marked by the train)), or collect a cargo token from one of the cities.
Scoring (for you) is accumulated through the game by connecting any train
company to a city where you hold one or more of the three cargo tokens, by
running a train company next to a railway town if you have majority (or second)
number of stations on that line, and by causing mergers. A merger happens
whenever two rail lines become adjacent. The one that moves folds into the
other one. stocks are traded in at 1:2 and the company that's folding scores
for the two majority holders of both stocks and stations.
At the end of the game, scoring is done in similar ways and also, people who
have majorities of the various types of cargo markers get more. It is
generally pretty close with some surprises when the points are tallied at the
end of the game.
If this has been unclear, the rules are available at the link above.
> For flat out beer and pretzels, it's tough to beat railway rivals... a bit of
> business at the beginning about who gets through what passes first, and then
> it's just pure luck.
I've played, but I recall it being pretty simple, and nice enough, but it
didn't scream "buy me." And so I didn't.
> > I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
>
> I have a rather old CD at this point of this which we played a fair bit, but I
> like the board version better, multiplayer on the PC was cumbersome, and • single
> player not as fun as against humans. (it's great to send someone up the river
Right...I've only played single player. I'd rather play on a board with
players too, but I can drive through a game in 1 hour which I just can't do
with humans on the other end.
> with a well timed dump, and you can't do that against the PC players, they
> can't be suckered...)
Agreed. But I can. So they get the best of me. And on the 1 in 3 where I win
, I feel like I earned it.
> > I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, • 53(?...Imperial
> > India), and 35.
>
> I've only played '29 (? the english) '30 and '35 (which I found quite hard to
> fathom, I don't grok the intermediate stage). Why do you like '70?
Oh yeah, I've played '29 too, with one or two of the little expansions. Maybe
for social reasons more than game reasons. It was my second try with the
system, after '56. I think it's quite better than '56 which is dominated by
the socializing of the Canadian lines (as it's supposed to be). I also lived
in the area 1870 covered (the south midwest: Chicago to Texas). OTOH, I've met
others from around the nation who also like it best. <shrug> Have you ever
looked at http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.lawson/18xx/index.htm ? It's a
great 18xx site.
> > Eurorails is my fave of the crayon games, but Iron Dragon has some nice rules
> > additions. (I don't care for the foreman rules) Nippon (especially) or
> > Australian or Brittish rails both make better two player games than the large
> > boards.
>
> Yes. Between my brother in law and me, we have all of them except british
> and the original, strangely enough, and Nippon is good for a fast 2 player.
I have the original Empire builder, first printing, in a big flat 1-inch high
box and crappy cards. I've never replaced it with a newer one.
> > I've played Silverton, and I think there are some good ideas burried in it, • but
> > it's really boring and cumbersome.
>
> I've had good luck getting mundanes to try Silverton, better than say, empire
> builder or rail baron, believe it or not. I agree with you, I too think
Wow, I've made gamers out of people with the crayon games. I think they are
second only to _Settlers of Catan_ for interesting non-gamers.
> I haven't played these. Have you played Streetcar?
I think so. Is it set in New Orleans? Or is that Railway Rivals? Is
Streetcar the same system as Linnie1? I think I have once or twice quite a
while ago.
> I should also mention Transport Tycoon which I like a lot (and which you can
Wow. I hated it :-) It never clicked with me. I could sometimes make money,
but never with planes or trucks, trains and boats only - if I'm remembering it
right. I think there was just some paradigm thing that I never phased with and
so I didn't spend the time with it that I might otherwise have.
> see the bones of in RollerCoaster Tycoon, my current fave PC game).
Is that actually good? What's the premis? I mean, I guess you're making money
at a theme park, but what's the hook?
> I just got the Lionel Trans Con PC game which I stumbled across at KBKids • while
> looking for other stuff, haven't tried it yet.
Never heard of it. Good luck.
Chris
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
>
> > Tikal is my current favorite.
>
> Have you played Stephenson's Rocket? I can't get enough of it.
>
> Chris
Yes, a number of times. Jury's still out on this one. I'll definitely play it
again, but the scoring system tends to be completely incomprehensible to
beginners, and what you need to emphasize seems to change dependant upon number
of players in the game (which keeps the scoring incomprehensible even after a
few games). The common complaint is that even after playing a game, many
players are still not sure how to proceed in the next game. My wife and I like
railroad games in general, so we'll keep trotting it out for now.
Bruce
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
<snipped synopsis>
> If this has been unclear, the rules are available at the link above.
Perused them. Seems to have a bit of Acquire-ish thinking, in how stuff merges.
Well, I'll give it a go if I see it.
> > For flat out beer and pretzels, it's tough to beat railway rivals... a bit of
> > business at the beginning about who gets through what passes first, and then
> > it's just pure luck.
>
> I've played, but I recall it being pretty simple, and nice enough, but it
> didn't scream "buy me." And so I didn't.
Ya, it's simple. Good mundanes game. I tend to buy every railroad game I
encounter, so I did.
> Have you ever
> looked at http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.lawson/18xx/index.htm ? It's a
> great 18xx site.
Thanks for the pointer!
> > I haven't played these. Have you played Streetcar?
>
> I think so. Is it set in New Orleans?
Maybe. It's a common network, upgradeable routing game, with an interesting
movement mechanism. My beef is that once the game tide turns there's not much
of a way to recover.
> Or is that Railway Rivals?
set in the central UK as so many other rail games are.
> Is
> Streetcar the same system as Linnie1? I think I have once or twice quite a
> while ago.
Not sure. The tiles are square, and you establish "stops"
<RollerCoasterTycoon>
> Is that actually good? What's the premis? I mean, I guess you're
> making money at a theme park, but what's the hook?
Mike Stanley hated it, said it was too much like work. :-) There IS a lot of
management level decision making to make, but I like that kind of stuff.
What I like about it is that your decisions about what rides to put where, how
to organize the paths, what to charge, what booths to have, and a lot of other
factors all matter. It's a good economic simulation.
What I REALLY like about it, though, is that the coaster physics are accurate,
near as I (a layman) can tell. If you don't design things right, the cars won't
make it around the course, or will go too slow through the inversions. It's
possible to make a coaster so boring that no one will ride it, or one so rough
that everybody pukes right when they get off and even if you have lots of
handymen there, you can't keep the puke off the sidewalks and park attendance
starts to fall because the peeps are grossed out.
But when you get a coaster just right, it's a beautiful thing.
Oh, and the other part that's fun is stuffing 10 pounds of rides into a 5 pound
park. I usually play well beyond when i've won the scenario just to see how
crammed full of rides (and intertwined) I can get the park.
> > I just got the Lionel Trans Con PC game which I stumbled across at KBKids • while
> > looking for other stuff, haven't tried it yet.
>
> Never heard of it. Good luck.
Played it. It's for kids. Trys to teach you history, some of it incorrect.
Avoid.
++Lar
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
ka-snip
> I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
We don't really bother with the board game version at all anymore - 1830
straight off the computer. It plays *much* faster that way.
>
> > Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
> > although Streetcar is also challenging
>
> I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, • 53(?...Imperial
> India), and 35.
We've 18xxed out in general (except on the computer). Perhaps those 9 hour
1829 games pushed us over the edge. :-)
>
> Eurorails is my fave of the crayon games, but Iron Dragon has some nice rules
> additions. (I don't care for the foreman rules) Nippon (especially) or
> Australian or Brittish rails both make better two player games than the large
> boards.
Ditto to all the above.
>
> I've played Silverton, and I think there are some good ideas burried in it,
> but it's really boring and cumbersome.
I know several people who like it, but I tend to agree with you it can be on
the boring side.
My amusing Silverton story: we were playing the original version before the
expansion came out at a game convention in the open gaming area. Lots of
people wander by to watch. My wife looks up at one guy and out of the blue
says, "Are you the designer of this game?" He looks up, then right and left to
see if she was speaking to someone else. Seeing that he was indeed the
questioned party, he manages to stutter out a reply:
"Why, yes!" And then went on to explain about the expansion he had designed.
Scratching my head, I asked my wife later on, "You saw his name-badge, right?
That's how you knew."
"No, he just reminded me of Fritz Bronner." (designer of Liftoff!)
I will never doubt women's intuition again! :-)
> Union Pacific is pretty good - basically a
> remake of Airlines.
>
> My favorite 'train' board game is Iron Duke, but it's only a train game in the
> way it's portrayed. It's doesn't feel trainy, and it's really a puzzle game.
>
> Chris
Thumbs up on both of these.
Bruce
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> <RollerCoasterTycoon>
>
> > Is that actually good? What's the premis? I mean, I guess you're
> > making money at a theme park, but what's the hook?
>
> Mike Stanley hated it, said it was too much like work. :-) There IS a lot of
Mike, you have a copy to sell cheap?
> management level decision making to make, but I like that kind of stuff.
>
> What I like about it is that your decisions about what rides to put where, how
> to organize the paths, what to charge, what booths to have, and a lot of other
> factors all matter. It's a good economic simulation.
Your review in general, and this paragraph in specific makes it sound like it's
worth a try.
<Lionel Trans Con PC game>
> Played it. It's for kids. Trys to teach you history, some of it incorrect.
> Avoid.
Yeah! I hate the teaching of incorrect stuff. That's really irresponsible and
it's amazingly widespread.
Chris
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Christopher Weeks wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > I also like the PC version of 1830. I mostly play with random maps now.
> >
> > I have a rather old CD at this point of this which we played a fair bit, but I
> > like the board version better, multiplayer on the PC was cumbersome, and • single
> > player not as fun as against humans. (it's great to send someone up the river
>
> Right...I've only played single player. I'd rather play on a board with
> players too, but I can drive through a game in 1 hour which I just can't do
> with humans on the other end.
Interestingly, the computer version of 1830 sold me on the real board
game. I had played 1829, but when 1830 first came out, I passed on it
because I thought the smaller board would make the game less
interesting. Definitely not so.
> > with a well timed dump, and you can't do that against the PC players, they
> > can't be suckered...)
>
> Agreed. But I can. So they get the best of me. And on the 1 in 3 where I win
> , I feel like I earned it.
>
> > > I prefer 1870 of the 18xx games that I've played (1830, 56, 70, • 53(?...Imperial
> > > India), and 35.
> >
> > I've only played '29 (? the english) '30 and '35 (which I found quite hard to
> > fathom, I don't grok the intermediate stage). Why do you like '70?
>
> Oh yeah, I've played '29 too, with one or two of the little expansions. Maybe
> for social reasons more than game reasons. It was my second try with the
> system, after '56. I think it's quite better than '56 which is dominated by
> the socializing of the Canadian lines (as it's supposed to be). I also lived
> in the area 1870 covered (the south midwest: Chicago to Texas). OTOH, I've met
> others from around the nation who also like it best. <shrug> Have you ever
> looked at http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.lawson/18xx/index.htm ? It's a
> great 18xx site.
I haven't checked this site against the games I have to see if I have
all the 18xx games which are commonly available in stores (I am still
hoping to find the original editions of 1829). I even picked up 2038 by
Tim Jim games, which looks like a good extension of the theme into the
asteroid belt. I haven't played this with real players, but solo played
a 4 player game, and it seemed to flow pretty well. I was also glad I
didn't rush out and buy 1856 and 1870, I later found them on clearance
for half price. Right now I'd have to say that the original edition of
1829 south would be my favorite as that is the only one I've played much
of.
I definitely enjoy economic games (which is what the 18xx games really
are). I've long enjoyed Acquire, especially since I won the 1st game I
played. I forget if it was that 1st game, or my 2nd where I had the
starting tiles to create three hotel chains and cause the two mergers to
bring them together before anyone else had a chance to buy any of the
stock (they were all busy buying stock in the chains THEY had started).
--
Frank Filz
-----------------------------
Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com (business only please)
Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> My faves in the RR genre:
>
> PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
> Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
This may be old news, but I just discovered that Iron Dragon is being created
as a PC game. See http://www.irondragon.org/ for a few details.
Chris
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Frank Filz writes:
> I definitely enjoy economic games (which is what the 18xx games really
> are).
I do too. And I agree that 18xx is fully an economic game.
> I've long enjoyed Acquire,
Have you seen the new version? I just picked it up Saturday morning. It's
pretty. The game doesn't need to be pretty, but it is nicer.
Chris
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In article <Ft6MKL.5I9@lugnet.com>,
Christopher Weeks <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote:
> Have you seen the new version? I just picked it up Saturday morning. It's
> pretty. The game doesn't need to be pretty, but it is nicer.
I had not realized it was out.
Is it more like 1st edition or second edition Acquire? (The major difference
was the "special actions" showed up in second edition...
-JDF
--
J.D. Forinash ,-.
foxtrot@cc.gatech.edu ( <
The more you learn, the better your luck gets. `-'
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In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
> > My faves in the RR genre:
> >
> > PC: Railroad Tycoon (original, strangely enough)
> > Board: 1830 when serious, Eurorails or Iron Dragon, when just for fun,
>
> This may be old news, but I just discovered that Iron Dragon is being created
> as a PC game. See http://www.irondragon.org/ for a few details.
>
> Chris
Cool. thanks
Hopefully they will reuse the basic game engine to do some of the other non
fantasy based ones too.
++Lar
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