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 LEGO Company / 665
Subject: 
Re: The sky is *not* falling
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.lego
Date: 
Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:18:44 GMT
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In lugnet.lego, Gregory Muri wrote:
glad there are people out there who feel the same way I do and are
not afraid to say so.  TLC has made zero effort with regards to the
color change issue.  Simply posting that garbage about the color
pallette and then dropping the issue is unacceptable to me.  I can
only hope that the current shake up of the company will have
positive results.  I've got my fingers crossed.

Me too.  I've resisted buying the new colors, but I just started
building a set I got as a gift and a couple of things struck me.  I
just don't buy the lame focus group / crisper pallette explanation.
The implementation is just too hurried and half baked to support
that theory.

For one thing, the "new improved" colors are not even mentioned on the
package, much less advertised as you'd expect.  Also, the model
pictured on the outside of the package (4495) appears to contain a mix
of old and new dark grey colored parts.  And the instructions on the
inside still show the old dark grey.  The whole thing looks rushed.

I actually find the "new colors cause cancer" theory advanced by the
toronto guys to be more more believable.  Probably someone in upper
management realized that the laws against using cheaper carcinogenic
dyes are much more lax in China than in Enfield and made a quick
decision to bump up profits for 2004.

So I too have my fingers crossed that whoever's responsible for this
mess got the axe in the management shakeup, and the return to core
values brings a return to the core colors.

Don


Subject: 
Re: The sky is *not* falling
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.lego
Date: 
Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:33:45 GMT
Viewed: 
4872 times
  
In lugnet.lego, Don Heyse wrote:
Me too.  I've resisted buying the new colors, but I just started
building a set I got as a gift and a couple of things struck me.  I
just don't buy the lame focus group / crisper pallette explanation.
The implementation is just too hurried and half baked to support
that theory.

I actually think "lame focus group" is a perfectly good explanation.  Focus
groups seem to result in plenty of abominations that happen to have tested well
-- if not necessarily in a well-designed test.  I didn't find the color palette
explanation is compelling (it's hard to imagine it really having festered for
25+ years), but it might have stuck in the craw of someone with leverage.

For one thing, the "new improved" colors are not even mentioned on the
package, much less advertised as you'd expect.  [...]  The whole thing looks rushed.

Agreed.  I picked up the Mini Star Destroyer just before the color change
firestorm hit (in the expectation it would be a swell parts pack), and while I
was not as incensed as some, I didn't exactly view it as a pleasant surprise
either.  It shouldn't have been a surprise at all.

So I too have my fingers crossed that whoever's responsible for this
mess got the axe in the management shakeup, and the return to core
values brings a return to the core colors.

Me three.  Good companies can admit and reverse mistakes like this.

Tom


Subject: 
Re: The sky is *not* falling
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.lego
Date: 
Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:56:36 GMT
Viewed: 
5104 times
  
In lugnet.lego, Tom Bozzo wrote:
In lugnet.lego, Don Heyse wrote:
So I too have my fingers crossed that whoever's responsible for this
mess got the axe in the management shakeup, and the return to core
values brings a return to the core colors.

Me three.  Good companies can admit and reverse mistakes like this.

You know what I think is really funny about all the griping about these new Lego
colours? As soon as we find out that TLC *does* change its mind, and returns to
the old colours, (and understand I'm not saying that they have or will!)
everyone will scramble to get the few sets that have the new colours in them,
since then they will suddenly become *rare* colours, and hence very desirable.
In fact, I'd predict that the very people complaining about these new colours
will be among those trying to pick them up before they're no longer available!

Also, should Lego go back to the older colours, there will (maybe!) be an
entirely different set of people that will then start complaining about the fact
that Lego has stopped making a great set of new colours, and that they should go
back to making them again.

In other words, there really is no way that TLC can win in this. Saying they
shouldn't have made the change in the first place is irrelevant. It's history.
And no one yet has made a good business argument about why Lego should take the
risk of going back to the old colours.

Lego has introduced new colours from time to time. They've also stopped
producing colours from time to time. I'll grant that up until now these have
been highlight colours, not one of the main palette.

No one's ever complained about past colour changes, at least that I've heard.
Only the fact that you already have a lot of this colour is bothering you. But
it shouldn't!

I've got a lot of the old greys and old brown myself. But personally because I
have so much, it makes me excited about having new colours now! More variation
for my creations! To start with I'll use the new colours as highlights. As I
collect more, I will find ways to mix them. And in ten years or so, when I have
more of the new than the old, I'll use the old as highlights instead. The way I
see it, I can't lose!

--
  David Schilling

(And if I only had a small collection, it shouldn't bother me either. If I like
Lego, it will only be a short time before I have a lot of the new colours, and
again the old will be an interesting highlight to use in my creations.)


Subject: 
Re: The sky is *not* falling
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.lego
Date: 
Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:41:18 GMT
Viewed: 
5587 times
  
In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
   In lugnet.lego, Tom Bozzo wrote:
   In lugnet.lego, Don Heyse wrote:
   So I too have my fingers crossed that whoever’s responsible for this mess got the axe in the management shakeup, and the return to core values brings a return to the core colors.

Me three. Good companies can admit and reverse mistakes like this.

You know what I think is really funny about all the griping about these new Lego colours? As soon as we find out that TLC *does* change its mind, and returns to the old colours, (and understand I’m not saying that they have or will!) everyone will scramble to get the few sets that have the new colours in them, since then they will suddenly become *rare* colours, and hence very desirable. In fact, I’d predict that the very people complaining about these new colours will be among those trying to pick them up before they’re no longer available!

Also, should Lego go back to the older colours, there will (maybe!) be an entirely different set of people that will then start complaining about the fact that Lego has stopped making a great set of new colours, and that they should go back to making them again.

I wonder if most Lego fans aren’t truly happy unless they have something to complain about....


Cheers

Richie


Subject: 
Re: The sky is *not* falling
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.lego
Date: 
Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:52:53 GMT
Viewed: 
5754 times
  
David,

You make good points in your post.

1. This one is not:

In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
You know what I think is really funny about all the griping about these new Lego
colours? As soon as we find out that TLC *does* change its mind, and returns to
the old colours, (and understand I'm not saying that they have or will!)
everyone will scramble to get the few sets that have the new colours in them,
since then they will suddenly become *rare* colours, and hence very desirable.
In fact, I'd predict that the very people complaining about these new colours
will be among those trying to pick them up before they're no longer available!


As for me (and i think for a lot of people) you are *very* wrong. Are you saying
we just want a color or a part because it is rare? Not me. I don't care if a
part is rare, i care if it is useful. I don't care if a color becomes rare, i
care if i like the color and i planned to make virtually endless MOCs with them.
And as i said before i don't even like this new colors, so why should i buy
them? For the sake of becoming rare? Give me a break.

If TLC would made this new sets with old colors, i'd for sure buy some of them;
as it is, i'm more into brick bulks rather than sets.


2. This one neither:

Also, should Lego go back to the older colours, there will (maybe!) be an
entirely different set of people that will then start complaining about the fact
that Lego has stopped making a great set of new colours, and that they should go
back to making them again.

Yeah, a "different set" but a *smaller* one don't you think? Or do you think
that this new colors have already hundreds of fans?

And another thing: I didn' saw no one asking TLC to *stop* producing this new
colors. I see people asking for the *return* of the old ones. That's a
completely different thing, wouldn't you agree?

I could live with the two (old & new) colors...[1]


3.

In other words, there really is no way that TLC can win in this. Saying they
shouldn't have made the change in the first place is irrelevant. It's history.
And no one yet has made a good business argument about why Lego should take the
risk of going back to the old colours.

True. But have you heard any "business argument" coming from TLC to justify the
color change?

4.

Lego has introduced new colours from time to time. They've also stopped
producing colours from time to time. I'll grant that up until now these have
been highlight colours, not one of the main palette.

No one's ever complained about past colour changes, at least that I've heard.
Only the fact that you already have a lot of this colour is bothering you. But
it shouldn't!

Ok. The greens changed for at least three times. Red changed also. Pink as well.
As for green, it changed when it was not vastly spreaded. If green would change
now it would cause damages. Pink was rare at the time it was changed (Paradisa
era). I have all of the Paradisa sets and some of them in multiple copies and i
don't have enough pink to make any MOC. Therefore it's not that serious.
Although not pleasant. As for red, the change was for worst (IMO) but almost
unnoticeable, the new play well with olds (at least to my eyes).

If you never heard no one complaing you're hearing now. I've never appreciated
color changes (meanig replacements). Besides, the reason you've never heard, is
it because there was no Lugnet or such sites? Could just be it, no?


5. Hmmm. Almost a good point:

I've got a lot of the old greys and old brown myself. But personally because I
have so much, it makes me excited about having new colours now! More variation
for my creations! To start with I'll use the new colours as highlights. As I
collect more, I will find ways to mix them. And in ten years or so, when I have
more of the new than the old, I'll use the old as highlights instead. The way I
see it, I can't lose!

How will you use bluish dark gray train tracks as highlights on your existing
layout?
And what about all of those parts that will never be rereleased in old
grays/browns and are rare as they are: See this simple *plate* for instance:

http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=swanberg&itemID=2037618

Would you believe that this is the only BL store selling it (in new condition)?
Now, what will be the chances to get some more of them?

Hope you understand what i mean. My english is not that good and i try the best
to make myself clear.

I'm glad that you (and a lot of people) will have fun with the new colors and i
understand your points that are valid to you but, not to me unfortunately.

Best regards,

Paulo Renato

[1] I could live without old grays/brown too. I could live without a single LEGO
brick as well. So what? Of course this isn't a question of life/death, but
there's nothing wrong to live the things you like with passion. With lots of
passion. That very special Passion that goes hand in hand with Mind.

--
  David Schilling

(And if I only had a small collection, it shouldn't bother me either. If I like
Lego, it will only be a short time before I have a lot of the new colours, and
again the old will be an interesting highlight to use in my creations.)


Subject: 
Re: The sky is *not* falling
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.lego
Date: 
Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:59:35 GMT
Viewed: 
5232 times
  
In lugnet.lego, Richie Dulin wrote:
   In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
   You know what I think is really funny about all the griping about these new Lego colours? As soon as we find out that TLC *does* change its mind, and returns to the old colours, (and understand I’m not saying that they have or will!) everyone will scramble to get the few sets that have the new colours in them, since then they will suddenly become *rare* colours, and hence very desirable. In fact, I’d predict that the very people complaining about these new colours will be among those trying to pick them up before they’re no longer available!

Also, should Lego go back to the older colours, there will (maybe!) be an entirely different set of people that will then start complaining about the fact that Lego has stopped making a great set of new colours, and that they should go back to making them again.

I wonder if most Lego fans aren’t truly happy unless they have something to complain about....


Cheers

  
Richie


Richie,

You’re speaking for yourself right? There a lot of people here that are talking for theirselfs but trying to input that on others. And at least, there are two on this tread already. Doesn’t seem very reasonable to me. I think we should speak for ourselfs and do not make assumptions about others. Living is easy, you know.

Best regards,

Paulo Renato


Subject: 
Re: The sky is *not* falling
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.lego
Date: 
Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:17:38 GMT
Reply-To: 
MATTDM@MATTDM.ihatespamORG
Viewed: 
5221 times
  
David Schilling <davidNO@SPAMsunteleia.com> wrote:
colours? As soon as we find out that TLC *does* change its mind, and
returns to the old colours, (and understand I'm not saying that they
have or will!) everyone will scramble to get the few sets that have the
new colours in them, since then they will suddenly become *rare*
colours, and hence very desirable. In fact, I'd predict that the very

Sure. New colors are good. What's bad is getting rid of *key* old ones.


--
Matthew Miller           mattdm@mattdm.org        <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux      ------>                <http://linux.bu.edu/>


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