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Aha! It looks like I can now read/post to the Lugnet web interface! Unless of
course this message does not show up, in which case, ignore the above.
I enjoyed reading Frank's writeup. Yes, as far as I know, this is the first
major "blindtest" of the rules . . . interesting to see how they go when I'm not
around!
In lugnet.fun.gaming, Frank Filz writes:
>
> The game requires much more preparation that I had realized.
No kidding :-\ Good thing we LIKE this stuff.
> range sticks made out of LEGO bricks.
Cool!
>
> FACILITIES:
>
> It would have been MUCH nicer to have a lockable or otherwise secure
> space.
Absolutely.
.
>
> GMING:
>
> Major problem - we only had one GM.
Congratulations on *surviving* . . .
> One issue later in the game was how to work with a younger player.
Yes, I continue to struggle with this. The young ones really enjoy themselves,
but sometimes they do things that annoy adults (e.g., pick up their ships and
walk around with them)
> - deputize some of the players to oversee combats which are not near and
> dear to them
In my experience, players will play fair once they understand the rules, and
combat referees are not really necessary.
> - let some assistant GMs run a bunch of NPC ships.
Yes. I've found that many people think that this is just as much fun as actually
playing. An assistant GM can control an Imperial warship, roleplay it fully, and
really enjoy himself, even though he can't be the "winner" of the game.
> RULES:
>
> Simpler damage charts for NPC ships would help
?? You can just ignore the parts you don't use . . .
>
> . . . the game also
> has to move at a pace such that over the course of a few hours, islands get
> plundered, ships get robbed of their cargo, and an occasional prize is
> taken).
Yes. As the game develops, I am throwing out more and more of the things that
don't directly contribute to ACTIVE sailing around, fighting and plundering.
>
> The weather was a real drag. We played almost the entire game under a light
> wind from the west. I used the pre-generated chart, and several times, even
> though the 5 or 6 roll to change the weather came up, the next line on the
> chart was the same.
Arrrr. I thought I had rooted out all those. I just went back to my source and
found 3 and fixed them. Sorry . . . At any rate, if you find the wind is not
changing enough, you can make
it change on a 4-6, or just TELL the players it has changed :-)
> Things like turning radius and pursuit rules perhaps should appear on the
> record sheets (need to think about some rules to summarize on the record
> sheets)
Good point re: turning radius. I'm no longer using the pursuit rules at all ...
> ... the battles occurred at the same pace
> as ship movement, so it was possible to sail into a battle.
Yes, I think that's fun.
>
> I liked the way I ran skeletons.
That does sound like fun.
> Some thoughts have been raised about rule changes:
>
> - initiative randomizer (I think this would add too much complexity . . .
Agree.
> - things like swivel guns (probably a complexity add)
Yes. Had 'em in an early draft, took 'em out. Not only do they make the combat
charts longer, but (though they look neat in models) they don't travel well.
> - siege mortars
Yes. Though I was thinking of these as fort weapons that, with a good roll,
would drop a big fat ol' heated shot onto the deck of an attacking pirate. And
they could be pre-sighted on a spot in the ocean in hopes that a pirate would
end his turn there . . . giving a HUGE bonus to hit.
> - Different range penalties for grapeshot (may add complexity, need to look
> at the suggestion)
Grapeshot is broken right now, for sure.
> - wind speed variation seemed to add complexity without much value (wind
> direction change on the other hand is worthwhile)
Next time I revise the rules, I will double the "standard" wind speed. Makes
things move much faster, so to speak.
> - should hull hits affect speed (if they did, some of that speed loss could
> be kept until the ship is properly repaired, this would reduce the need for
> the hidden damage chart)
Hmm. I want to do SOMETHING to encourage people to shoot more at the hull.
> - it has been discussed to have the combats run asynchronously (sorry - I'm
> a techy) to ship movement (I don't think this would be good - if we speed
> things up, I think it will be less of a problem
I started off with asynchronous combat, and found it slowed things down.
> - maximum ranges for cannon might be worthwhile, though no one ever tried to
> shoot from one side of the ocean to the other, in fact, only a few shots
> were ever taken at more than 18", and I think 30" or so was the maximum
> range a shot was ever fired at.
A FAQ is "what's the maximum range?" As the rules are written, it just gets
harder and harder to hit . . . I really ought to figure out the utter absolute
all-bonuses-applied max range just so I can answer that question, but most
people are satisfied with "Beyond 3 feet it will take dumb luck to hit."
> SUGGESTED CHANGES:
> - Detail out the rules for all the creatures (these need not be revealed of
> course)
I thought I had detailed creature rules on the site. No?
> - need smaller rulers for personal combat
Heh. Send me your address and I'll send you a batch of the little 6" rulers SJ
Games made up for giveaways!
Darn, I have just GOT to make it to a Brickfest sometime . . . or maybe try to
host a Piratefest here in Austin. Wonder how many people would come to Austin
just for a weekend of brick-trading and Arrrrr! ??
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Steve Jackson writes:
> Aha! It looks like I can now read/post to the Lugnet web interface!
> Unless of course this message does not show up, in which case,
> ignore the above.
Ahoy, there Cap'n Steve! Welcome aboard!!! :-D
Franklin
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Steve Jackson wrote in message ...
> Aha! It looks like I can now read/post to the Lugnet web interface! Unless of
> course this message does not show up, in which case, ignore the above.
Hooray! Welcome aboard matey, or should that be captain...
> > One issue later in the game was how to work with a younger player.
>
> Yes, I continue to struggle with this. The young ones really enjoy themselves,
> but sometimes they do things that annoy adults (e.g., pick up their ships and
> walk around with them)
Probably the best thing to do is just let the younger player do as they will, so long as they don't do something which directly
affects another player. Having a special prize for younger players would also be good (have some spare pirate props, and a small set
just for them).
> > - let some assistant GMs run a bunch of NPC ships.
>
> Yes. I've found that many people think that this is just as much fun as actually
> playing. An assistant GM can control an Imperial warship, roleplay it fully, and
> really enjoy himself, even though he can't be the "winner" of the game.
Great. Of course no reason one can't have something prizelike to reward the best assistant(s). I think in many cases, one doesn't
need to have a "winner" of the game (at least if something like the campaign style is being done), so prizes will end up being
awarded to those who accomplished something, or just impressed the GM(s).
> > RULES:
> >
> > Simpler damage charts for NPC ships would help
>
> ?? You can just ignore the parts you don't use . . .
Hmm, not sure what I was getting at here...
Another note for ship record sheets, the effects of the various types of damage need to be listed. Also a quick reference to crew
actions (in fact, many of these things may be more imporant than the damage charts - unless one wants to customize the damage charts
to the particular ship (which could be good).
> > . . . the game also
> > has to move at a pace such that over the course of a few hours, islands get
> > plundered, ships get robbed of their cargo, and an occasional prize is
> > taken).
>
> Yes. As the game develops, I am throwing out more and more of the things that
> don't directly contribute to ACTIVE sailing around, fighting and plundering.
Will we be seeing a 2nd edition of the rules soon? If so, I suggest maintaining the 1st edition for those who might still want some
of the complex options (if you still have them, you might also want to publish the various rules you have removed as "optional"
rules or "fyi" notes, that can be useful in determining what NOT to go and add).
> > The weather was a real drag. We played almost the entire game under a light
> > wind from the west. I used the pre-generated chart, and several times, even
> > though the 5 or 6 roll to change the weather came up, the next line on the
> > chart was the same.
>
> Arrrr. I thought I had rooted out all those. I just went back to my source and
> found 3 and fixed them. Sorry . . . At any rate, if you find the wind is not
> changing enough, you can make
> it change on a 4-6, or just TELL the players it has changed :-)
Well, what do you know, it looks like the portion of the weather chart we ended up using had two of those three repeats... When I
have a chance to re-read the rules, I'll probably make some suggestions.
> > Things like turning radius and pursuit rules perhaps should appear on the
> > record sheets (need to think about some rules to summarize on the record
> > sheets)
>
> Good point re: turning radius. I'm no longer using the pursuit rules at all ...
Some kind of pursuit randomness would have helped in the chase we ended up with. It could be a simple thing though, if you have what
looks to be a chase which is going to get drawn out, simply roll 2d6:
2-3 ship in front gains 2"
4-5 ship in front gains 1"
6-8 no gains
9-10 ship in back gains 1"
11-12 ship in back gains 2"
A ship with some kind of skill advantage aboard would get to adjust the roll by one in their favor.
> > - wind speed variation seemed to add complexity without much value (wind
> > direction change on the other hand is worthwhile)
>
> Next time I revise the rules, I will double the "standard" wind speed. Makes
> things move much faster, so to speak.
For our play area, we didn't need to double the speeds, we just needed to not have a long period of time under a light wind. I'd be
real inclined to just have two wind speeds though.
> > - maximum ranges for cannon might be worthwhile, though no one ever tried to
> > shoot from one side of the ocean to the other, in fact, only a few shots
> > were ever taken at more than 18", and I think 30" or so was the maximum
> > range a shot was ever fired at.
>
> A FAQ is "what's the maximum range?" As the rules are written, it just gets
> harder and harder to hit . . . I really ought to figure out the utter absolute
> all-bonuses-applied max range just so I can answer that question, but most
> people are satisfied with "Beyond 3 feet it will take dumb luck to hit."
Yea, I don't think it's a problem.
> > SUGGESTED CHANGES:
>
> > - Detail out the rules for all the creatures (these need not be revealed of
> > course)
>
> I thought I had detailed creature rules on the site. No?
The rules cover the "normal" creatures, but not dinos and skeletons and other such fun things which might be added. I don't think
this is bad, I think this is an area for GM customization.
> > - need smaller rulers for personal combat
>
> Heh. Send me your address and I'll send you a batch of the little 6" rulers SJ
> Games made up for giveaways!
Ok, will do in an e-mail. Of course with the idea of the LEGO range sticks, I'll just make up a bunch of 6" range sticks which would
do the trick (well, 9" might be better).
> Darn, I have just GOT to make it to a Brickfest sometime . . . or maybe try to
> host a Piratefest here in Austin. Wonder how many people would come to Austin
> just for a weekend of brick-trading and Arrrrr! ??
Oh I'd think about coming. I'd have to fly, and thus wouldn't be able to bring much, but it would be fun.
Frank
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Frank Filz writes:
>
> Steve Jackson wrote in message ...
>
> > Darn, I have just GOT to make it to a Brickfest sometime . . . or maybe try • to
> > host a Piratefest here in Austin. Wonder how many people would come to Austin
> > just for a weekend of brick-trading and Arrrrr! ??
>
> Oh I'd think about coming. I'd have to fly, and thus wouldn't be able to bring • much, but it would be fun.
>
> Frank
Arr! Having faced the amassed fleet of Capt'n Stevie before, I can safely say
that ye won't be needing ta' bring anything but lots of caffinated beverages!
As a survivor of the 12 hour battle during Radcon '98, I'd love to face of with
the likes of Admiral Derek of the Imperial Navy again! He may have lost the
fort to ship battle, but I was the only scurvy dog left on my (class 6) ship!
Not to mention that outbreak of UPS-plague that claimed the lives (at least for
the weekend) of over 700 minifigs! The horror!
I'd be on a plane in no time to gather with other pirate/lego-philes! One
question though. Could it be in the fall/winter-ish time so those of us from
the great off-white north (like Seattle) could survive the Texas sun?
-The Mad Pirate Sean
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Seattle? Well I'd like to try to get a game going this summer during PNLTC's big
train event at the Seattle Center. I figured since there will be a lot of AFOL's
here for the event we could have a Brickfest of sorts right along with it.
Interested? Anyone?
Tom
Sean Forbes wrote:
> I'd be on a plane in no time to gather with other pirate/lego-philes! One
> question though. Could it be in the fall/winter-ish time so those of us from
> the great off-white north (like Seattle) could survive the Texas sun?
>
> -The Mad Pirate Sean
--
Thomas's & Kristin's Home Page
http://home1.gte.net/trafert1/
PNLTC Member
http://www.pnltc.org/
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Thomas P. Rafert writes:
> Seattle? Well I'd like to try to get a game going this summer during PNLTC's
big train event at the Seattle Center. I figured since there will be a lot of
AFOL's here for the event we could have a Brickfest of sorts right along with
it. Interested? Anyone?
>
> Tom
>
>
> --
> Thomas's & Kristin's Home Page
> http://home1.gte.net/trafert1/
> PNLTC Member
> http://www.pnltc.org/
I'd love to help out with a Pirate game at an event like that. I'm pretty
sure I can count in one or two more as well from the guys I play with. The
real trick, as covered in Frank's game is making sure there are enough ships
of the right types for what we want to do. Battle games are a lot easier as
you can bring whatever you want, and things are divided up to form fair
teams. Having played the campaign style as well, I'd be in favor of trying
that as it sound like we could have at least two our three refs to work with.
Steve: You see a sail
Guy before me: Uh, ok. Can I tell if they have guns or not?
Steve: No, you're too far away, you can only see the sail.
Guy: Ok, we'll attack!
Steve: Alright. As you get closer, you see it's an Imperial Armada Flagship,
go over to Derek and fight your battle with your Cutter.
Guy: D'oh!
Steve (after rolling): You see a sail.
Me: Uh, ok...Can I tell how big of a sail it is?
Steve: Yes, it looks to be about the same size as yours.
Me: Are there more than one?
Steve: No.
Me: Well, then we'll attack!
Steve: You find it's a fishing boat. <roleplay> They surrender when they see
the size of your crew, you now have another ship.
Me: Cool.
Steve: You see a sail.
Some other Guy: Uh, ok. How big is it?...
(I've never hear that question asked so many times by so many guys)
-Sean, Mad the pirate!
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, Sean Forbes writes:
>
> Steve: You see a sail
>
> Guy before me: Uh, ok. Can I tell if they have guns or not?
>
> Steve: No, you're too far away, you can only see the sail.
>
> Guy: Ok, we'll attack!
>
> Steve: Alright. As you get closer,
> you see it's an Imperial Armada Flagship,
> go over to Derek and fight your battle with your Cutter.
>
> Guy: D'oh!
Must..... restrain.... evil.... cackle.......
> Steve (after rolling): You see a sail.
>
> Me: Uh, ok...Can I tell how big of a sail it is?
>
> Steve: Yes, it looks to be about the same size as yours.
>
> Me: Are there more than one?
>
> Steve: No.
>
> Me: Well, then we'll attack!
>
> Steve: You find it's a fishing boat.
> <roleplay>
> They surrender when they see the size of your crew,
> you now have another ship.
>
> Me: Cool.
Plunder! Arrr!!!
> Steve: You see a sail.
>
> Some other Guy: Uh, ok.
> How big is it?...
Arrr! Y' see, matey, if'n y' lives long enou',
y' learn how t' keep on livin'!
Franklin
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"Steve Jackson" <sj@io.com> wrote:
> Aha! It looks like I can now read/post to the Lugnet web interface! Unless of
> course this message does not show up, in which case, ignore the above.
...woohoo!
> I enjoyed reading Frank's writeup. Yes, as far as I know, this is the first
> major "blindtest" of the rules . . . interesting to see how they go when I'm not
> around!
...Well, despite all our missteps and problems, everyone seemed had fun, which is the #1
goal of the game. And most people seemed to accept the little problems as just part of the
game so didn't even mind them :-)
> > Simpler damage charts for NPC ships would help
>
> ?? You can just ignore the parts you don't use . . .
...After re-reading Frank's post, I think the NPC ships as well as crew actions should be
simplified. Like have a crew counter and as you mark off 'minimum' crew, you lose the
ability to do some things in simpler turns. For example, now u have to have 2 crew per
gun, + some minimum to just sail + some to stop... perhaps as you mark off below some
point (like 6 for a cutter), you would reach a point where 'cannon fire 1 per 2 turns',
'ship can only change course 1 "notch" per turn', 'ship sails at full speed or stop (ie,
no speed determination)' etc... This would cut down on dealing with just how crew are
being used and in particular for NPC ships make it a lot easier to deal with them...
...course, ymmv :-)
> > - should hull hits affect speed (if they did, some of that speed loss could
> > be kept until the ship is properly repaired, this would reduce the need for
> > the hidden damage chart)
>
> Hmm. I want to do SOMETHING to encourage people to shoot more at the hull.
...Maybe have some rigging hits don't do any damage at all (shot sailed rite thru). Given
the choice of maybe not doing any damage, people may choose to shoot at hull to at least
get 1 hit :-)
> Darn, I have just GOT to make it to a Brickfest sometime . . . or maybe try to
> host a Piratefest here in Austin. Wonder how many people would come to Austin
> just for a weekend of brick-trading and Arrrrr! ??
...Well, clear off the 3rd or 4th weekend in June next year :-) (we will likely decide on
a date next month and start coordinating for a _much_ better location (with AC!)) I hope
you can make it (I was excited that you even considered making it for this last one (ur
one of my heroes :-)
...you can go back to ignoring me now...
wubwub
stephen f roberts
wamalug guy (http://wamalug.org)
Jain's Guide (http://wildlink.com/lego/jain)
Visit the wildlink (http://wildlink.com)
lugnet #160
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