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In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Alex Polimeni wrote:
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In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Richard Marchetti wrote:
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All you guys want to do with CW is turn it into a game forum, and CW was
NEVER about gaming. That’s what I don’t understand.
CW was NEVER about gaming. Never!
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We arnt TRYING to turn it gaming! Long ago, i had wanted to. No, we want to
take the community to the next level, instead of keeping it just a little
story-board basically.
Why not have tips-n-tricks? Helpful articles? On-Line displays? Role Playing
Game section? Archives of the past? A bigger, better CW type thing, with the
Flux storys that are worlds by themselves (ikros perfect example) and maby a
pre-created map realm that you could have citys and buildings storys etc in?
Also, you may want to note that i replyed to Pawels post. I guess you just
like ignoring me, then, since im the one what came out with the RPG idea in
the first place. As i have said before, with you its “my way or the high
way.”
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Why not do it on your own? You and the others have already attacked Richard and
Pawel enough to illicit this kind of reply. Were I Richard, I’d feel the same
way. Instead of unifying the community, you (and some others) are the ones
dividing it by hurtling insults at the CW admins and thus souring them to your
cause.
Like I say here: http://news.lugnet.com/castle/org/cw/?n=1837 and like Jojo
says here: http://news.lugnet.com/castle/org/cw/?n=1836 ...
CW =/= the castle community!
The castle community > CW.
You can either break out of your current frame and do cool stuff nicely, or
continue to destroy relationships by whining and insulting. Your choice.
-Tim
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In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Richard Marchetti wrote:
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All you guys want to do with CW is turn it into a game forum, and CW was
NEVER about gaming. That’s what I don’t understand.
CW was NEVER about gaming. Never!
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We arnt TRYING to turn it gaming! Long ago, i had wanted to. No, we want to take
the community to the next level, instead of keeping it just a little story-board
basically.
Why not have tips-n-tricks? Helpful articles? On-Line displays? Role Playing
Game section? Archives of the past? A bigger, better CW type thing, with the
Flux storys that are worlds by themselves (ikros perfect example) and maby a
pre-created map realm that you could have citys and buildings storys etc in?
Also, you may want to note that i replyed to Pawels post. I guess you just like
ignoring me, then, since im the one what came out with the RPG idea in the first
place. As i have said before, with you its “my way or the high way.”
Anyway, i have to get off here. Seeya
Aramir
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All you guys want to do with CW is turn it into a game forum, and CW was NEVER
about gaming. That’s what I don’t understand.
CW was NEVER about gaming. Never!
I also personally find it annoying that no one has responded directly to Pawel’s
post here: http://news.lugnet.com/castle/org/cw/?n=1822 Y’all would rather
just gripe about how I am just not going to hand off CW to someone who doesn’t
care at all about the original spirit of the project. Um, well -- duh! Pawel,
the creator of CW, is basically being blown off. Y’all and can rail against me
as pleases you, I more or less don’t care. But snubbing Pawel shows your true
colors, at least to me if not to him (and I speak only for myself in this post).
Frankly, I think there may be too much bad blood to do anything with the project
now. I will let Pawel decide what he wants to do in terms of his own
involvement, as is befitting since CW is his baby and always was. As for
myself, I don’t intend to do a stitch of work to help any of you. Certainly,
not very much more work if anything at all.
I am sadly reminded of how many of you basically hated Craigo’s ingenious map
idea. It was modular, it was infinitely expandable, everybody could have what
sections pleased them, etc. -- it should have been prefect! Instead, I seem to
remember lots of posts about land-grabs and resistance to the use of Lego motifs
and animal shapes for the land masses. What a tedious lot y’all can be...
I was open to new ways to move forward, but no one ever offered either the
necessary skills (very separate from enthusiasm for castle stuff -- HTML, CSS,
FTP, image manipulation, etc) or made a suggestion that didn’t just sound like
D&D style gaming straight off. When Anthony Sava made his suggestion (and while
I liked some of his ideas) he was knowingly stepping on my and unknowingly
stepping on Pawel’s toes. It was something like a coup attempt to appoint
himself de facto admin. That was a rather obnoxious thing to do, don’t you
think? Even under a Parliamentary system, there is a Prime Minister -- and at
least for a time that person has been me. The funny thing is that if he had been
just a little more patient he could have done whatever he wanted under Pawel’s
Guild plan and I would have gladly given him the keys to his Guild. Then he and
his fellows could have done whatever they wished with it. Maybe that will still
happen, I don’t know.
Pawel and I were implementing something that was intended as being VERY
hands-off in nature -- pointedly so because I wanted to have to do as little
work as possible. There was just a surface hint of organization so that things
wouldn’t just careen madly every which way and without at least some vague sense
of direction, but that’s about it. Some genius suggested that I would then with
minimal effort be claiming authorship of CW -- I ask you: precisely how and why
would I try to claim the work of other individuals or groups as my own? If some
group had organized a Guild called “The Annoying Jerks of Castle World,” believe
me when I assert that they would have gotten full credit for their project.
What’s funny to me is that I wanted to enable something close to the original
spirit of CW, but also providing considerable autonomy to individuals and
Guilds. Through lack of patience and what amounts to little more than the
heckling of yours truly, you have managed to rebel against the autonomy Pawel
and I were going to provide. We had read your posts and ideas and were in the
act of distilling those many desires into a usable system. Even gaming Guild’s
were going to be possible because when Pawel and I discussed the Guild idea on
the phone I argued for it recognizing that lot’s of people wanted that to be
possible (however little I understand it).
In sum, this is what we have instead:
Sava -- dictatorial, without any right to be. Pile on lots of sour grapes. And
many of the rest of you have been little nicer than that.
That’s not much to work with in my view. Why should I even try?
-- Hop-Frog
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In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Johannes Koehler wrote:
> Hello!
>
>
>
> > I actually find it nice to see so many people involved over
> > this discussion. It jus’ means that the Castle-Community
> > is thriving and that different directions are being explored!
>
>
> Of course the 'Castle World community' must not be confused with the 'LEGO
> Castle community'. There *may* be people out there who build castles, churches,
> medieval towns, chariots and battle machines or even just collect LEGO Castle
> sets who are not at all interested in Castle World. Not everybody who builds
> castles and keeps and so on wants to create a complete kingdom or wants to join
> any 'guild'. And even if one creates a complete kingdom it does not
> automatically mean that this kindgom shall be situated in 'Castle World'. No
> matters who claims to be webmaster/dictator/emperor of this castle world.
This is one of the most sensible posts of this entire thread, IMO. I'm not a
Castle-head, but I've been following the discussion here -- half entertained,
half annoyed by the level of whining I'm reading.
In my view, Jojo's point makes so much sense. Castle World =/= The LEGO Castle
Community.
Nothing requires the CW admins to cede power to anyone. Sure, I believe in "s---
or get off the pot," and from my vantage point it certainly would be *nice* of
the CW admins to allow new people to revive the project if they aren't going to
do anything. However, when it all boils down, they own CW. Period. If the
sandbox owners aren't going to play the way you want them to play, go start your
own sandbox. For the sake of your own community, don't limit your scope to the
confines of one (stale) collaborative project!
> This is why I think that Castle World is not THE site for a LEGO Castle
> community. It's not even the portal, it's just one site amongst others.
Exactly! No one is confining you to the idea of Castle World but yourselves.
-Tim
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Hello!
> I actually find it nice to see so many people involved over
> this discussion. It jus’ means that the Castle-Community
> is thriving and that different directions are being explored!
Of course the 'Castle World community' must not be confused with the 'LEGO
Castle community'. There *may* be people out there who build castles, churches,
medieval towns, chariots and battle machines or even just collect LEGO Castle
sets who are not at all interested in Castle World. Not everybody who builds
castles and keeps and so on wants to create a complete kingdom or wants to join
any 'guild'. And even if one creates a complete kingdom it does not
automatically mean that this kindgom shall be situated in 'Castle World'. No
matters who claims to be webmaster/dictator/emperor of this castle world.
This is why I think that Castle World is not THE site for a LEGO Castle
community. It's not even the portal, it's just one site amongst others.
I've said before (in broken English, as usual) what I think would belong to an
overall community site. And that's more than just Castle World.
Bye
Jojo
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Richard, Alex and all: I think you all have valid viewpoints of these issues.
I do not think that arguing will benefit lugnet at all. People have made up
their minds on what they will do. Arguing back and forth does not change this,
it only clutters this newsgroup. Unless of course we are trying to outpost
space today! :)
Ben E.
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In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Richard Noeckel wrote:
> > In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Alex Polimeni wrote:
> > > In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Richard wrote:
> > > _It doesn't belong to you!!!
>
> > > Create your own Castle World type community.
>
> > Just leave, right, then? Go make a new board.
> > Let this one rot in memorys of "good old days."
>
> I don’t really care what you do.
> But it just might be easier to create
> your own if they won’t let you in.
Its a community! How can we be a community when there are cheifs that make
everyone else wait on them? You cannot run a community by going by your leisure!
> > > !!!If you don’t like what McDonalds is serving, you
> > > don’t talk to old’ Ronald, you jus’ go over to Burger King.
> >
> > well, actually, they both stink, so you make your own food.
>
> And thus, “so make your own [website].”
We had wanted to try to re-format what groundwork was already layed. Ihop said
that we could work with it, and then said we couldnt, and so on.
> > > Let them do their thing…stop makin’ demands from them.
> > > Do your own thing…be creative…
>
> > Do their thing? Its suppost to be a community.
>
> !A community created by them...
> That gives them precedence, and control.
Over the entire community? Were the community, and we have no power? I think
that WE, the community, should have control over it. Ihop keeps an entire
community waiting, not telling them what hes doing for a website etc. How is
this a nice community?
> > And no skills? No skills, eh? I suppose knowing how
> > Mythologies are made, how castles are built, how towns thrived, how online
> > communitys work, how websites are made and maintained, how projects get off the
> > ground and keep going is no skills? If you arnt a has-been you dont have any skills, i
> > guess.
>
> I wasn’t aware that this ‘open-letter’ to the community was addressed
> specifically to you. It appears a bit neurotic to defend yourself in
> regards to a generalized statement I made to the group.
I was also reffering to other people. I dont have skills in some of those areas
i stated. But you were suggesting Ihop was really skilled and nobody else was.
And, if we are skilled enough, why dont we take over it?
> > Oh well, i guess im just not skilled in anything. *Siiigghhh.
>
> Sure, if that’s what you think…
> But from what you wrote you sound like a pretty talented guy.
> Perhaps even talented enough to create your own castle community.
Why? Why not use the one that already exists? Why splinter?
> > > You have as much control over Castle World as you do
> > > over Lugnet TM. Just because you really like and use the
> > > medium doesn't entitle you to it’s direction. If Todd or Suz
> > > choose to let Lugnet go…or KILL it completely they can do
> > > so without recourse. Castle World doesn't have publicly
> > > listed stocks, you are actually lucky these people readily
> > > read and reply to what you write.
> >
> > Its an arrowed COMMUNITY! We all are suppost to go under one person?
>
> You can go under who ever you like. ;-)
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttttttssssssssss nooooooooooooooooooot
traaaaaaaaaaaademaaaaaaaarkkkeeeeeeeeeeeeedededdd!
> > What makes hop-frog so great?
>
> What difference does this make?
> It doesn’t matter to me.
> I'm talkin' about their creation!
Their creation that they said we could use, then when that challenged them they
denied it. If you make something for the community you have to do something with
it. And its not like they even tried to keep CW alive- its been dead since 01!!
> > Were all members, and were all inthusiests of lego.
> > This kind of behavior is total Orcgutz.
>
> Yes, members of Lugnet.
> And members of an AFOL Castle enthusiast Internet society,
> but not really members of a defunct castle web-site!?!
CW was meant for this community. its OURS!
> > > Essentially, whatever you say about dictatorship and
> > > whatnot is true, if not irrelevant.
> > > Don’t make demands of others and their creative works.
> > > Make your own path, and ‘choose your own adventure.’
>
> > well, Sava is called a "dictator" and then you yourself say that Hop frog has
> > total dictatorialship over the CW project and everything!
>
> I, myself, did not say "total dictatorship."
> My above statement clearly states" "whatever you say about..."
"Whatever you say about dictatorship is true. Ihop is dictator. You should all
bow down and wait for him to get his brown goop together." thats what your
saying, right?
> > If he doesnt want to update it in a century, well, we can just wait, right?
>
> ...Wait... do something... it doesn't matter!
> That's your choice, and it's also his.
Well, i guess it is his choice to doom CW for the rest of eternity.
> > We dont have rights to make demands.
>
> !!!Not on his time or creation!!!
> But you can feel free to throw around as many demands
> as you feel like if you believe it'll make things better.
The community should have control over its own fate! Not some dude that never
does anything!
> > We cant do anything.
>
> You could start your own Castle World TM
> instead of taking another’s pet-project?
A pet project meant for the COMMUNITY! its a COMMUNITY in ITESLF! Dos thou not
understand that you have to keep a community updated, listen to the members if
you want to keep it running? Ihop does not do that!
> > Their lucky we even CARE about that crummy
> > old world they dont do anything with!
>
> If it’s so “crummy” why do you want it?
> Obviously it means something to you.
> Why then do you demean it?
Its dead currently. With new blood we could probably ressurect it and do MORE
with it. Which would you prefer, actually? A new community somewhere else
entirly or just a replacement of CW?
> > But its all squish because we have no power and Hop-Frog is dictator.
> > All hail Rich!!
>
> Yup, you have no power over Hop-Frog.
> But you have power over yourself…power to create something new.
As i said, it would be nice to work on groundwork that has been laid. But if we
have to work in the air, i guess Ihop can just muddle about his website for the
rest of eternity.
> > > In essence, Castle World is a ‘privately-created-website’
> > > that aims to foster the development of the Lego Castle
> > > community.
>
> > Why should we not have power of CW?
>
> Perhaps because you didn’t create it and it does not belong to you.
RRRRAAAUUUGHHHH! If its a COMMUNITY the MEMBERS have CONTROL! YOU DO NOT FOSTER
A COMMUNITY WITH A SITE SUCH AS CW THAT IS NEVER UPDATED AND NEVER HAS NEW
BLOOD!
> > What the heck kind of community is this? You contridict yourself.
> > So, we should fall in line or make our own community,
> > but we have to fall in line- augh!
>
>
> I did not say: “fall in line.”
> I'm simply talkin’ about the rights of an individual
> or individuals to their time and creative works.
> It’s a matter of personal choice about what one does with their creations.
> If Pawel chooses to be lethargic and differs responsibility to Hop-Frog
> then it’s their choice. They didn’t choose you… so the choice is not in you
> hands.
Yes, and Hop-Frog cant TAKE responsibility! He doesnt try to do anything with
it! If were a community, were all equal.
> > Your incomprehensible.
>
> Perhaps you miss understood then.
> Hope it’s better now!
Actually, you failed in that. As far as i can tell, were the community, we
should either leave entirly or wait about for a dead project to become undead by
the hand of someone who cannot ressurect the dead. CW keeps claiming to be
alive, and really is not.It would be with fresh blood running through it. New
people. Then add to it. Branch it out more. Create a real, a great community on
the old groundwork.
If were all members here, then Hop-Frog has no special powers. I understand its
his pet project, but he shouldnt keep an entire community waiting simply because
he is lazy.
>
> --==Richard==--
Aramir of Uldeseen. And by the way, IIIITTTSSS NOOOOT TRADDDEEEMARRKKEDDD!
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In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Richard Noeckel wrote:
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At one point the professional artwork was created and owned by Craig Hamilton.
I believe between the ‘group’ of them, they owned the artwork and existing
sketches of TIOM’s intended map, and other aspects of their creations.
Registered Trade Mark or not, the art/concepts and creative works are still
property of their owners/creators and are shared with the community. But
nonetheless, are still in the possession of its creators, and thus they are
entitled to do what they want with their works.
It’s their trade mark… weather registered or not.
|
No, it’s not.
I think you have some confusion between trademarks and copyright.
The term “castle world” would not be covered by copyright. It has never been
claimed (let alone registered) as a trademark until today, when you’ve tried to
use it as a big stick to scare people.
I agree wholly on the maps and artworks. Property of their creators (unless
assigned or released) for sure - individually though, not collectively.
But castle world (the name, NOT the site) is not protected by copyright, and it
is not a trade mark.
Adieu
Richie Dulin
| | Port Brique
Somewhere in the South Pacifique
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| | Misérable
Building a safer South Pacifique
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> In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Alex Polimeni wrote:
> > In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Richard wrote:
> > _It doesn't belong to you!!!
> > Create your own Castle World type community.
> Just leave, right, then? Go make a new board.
> Let this one rot in memorys of "good old days."
I don’t really care what you do.
But it just might be easier to create
your own if they won’t let you in.
> > !!!If you don’t like what McDonalds is serving, you
> > don’t talk to old’ Ronald, you jus’ go over to Burger King.
>
> well, actually, they both stink, so you make your own food.
And thus, “so make your own [website].”
> > Let them do their thing…stop makin’ demands from them.
> > Do your own thing…be creative…
> Do their thing? Its suppost to be a community.
!A community created by them...
That gives them precedence, and control.
> And no skills? No skills, eh? I suppose knowing how
> Mythologies are made, how castles are built, how towns thrived, how online
> communitys work, how websites are made and maintained, how projects get off the
> ground and keep going is no skills? If you arnt a has-been you dont have any skills, i
> guess.
I wasn’t aware that this ‘open-letter’ to the community was addressed
specifically to you. It appears a bit neurotic to defend yourself in
regards to a generalized statement I made to the group.
> Oh well, i guess im just not skilled in anything. *Siiigghhh.
Sure, if that’s what you think…
But from what you wrote you sound like a pretty talented guy.
Perhaps even talented enough to create your own castle community.
> > You have as much control over Castle World as you do
> > over Lugnet TM. Just because you really like and use the
> > medium doesn't entitle you to it’s direction. If Todd or Suz
> > choose to let Lugnet go…or KILL it completely they can do
> > so without recourse. Castle World doesn't have publicly
> > listed stocks, you are actually lucky these people readily
> > read and reply to what you write.
>
> Its an arrowed COMMUNITY! We all are suppost to go under one person?
You can go under who ever you like. ;-)
> What makes hop-frog so great?
What difference does this make?
It doesn’t matter to me.
I'm talkin' about their creation!
> Were all members, and were all inthusiests of lego.
> This kind of behavior is total Orcgutz.
Yes, members of Lugnet.
And members of an AFOL Castle enthusiast Internet society,
but not really members of a defunct castle web-site!?!
> > Essentially, whatever you say about dictatorship and
> > whatnot is true, if not irrelevant.
> > Don’t make demands of others and their creative works.
> > Make your own path, and ‘choose your own adventure.’
> well, Sava is called a "dictator" and then you yourself say that Hop frog has
> total dictatorialship over the CW project and everything!
I, myself, did not say "total dictatorship."
My above statement clearly states" "whatever you say about..."
> If he doesnt want to update it in a century, well, we can just wait, right?
...Wait... do something... it doesn't matter!
That's your choice, and it's also his.
> We dont have rights to make demands.
!!!Not on his time or creation!!!
But you can feel free to throw around as many demands
as you feel like if you believe it'll make things better.
> We cant do anything.
You could start your own Castle World TM
instead of taking another’s pet-project?
> Their lucky we even CARE about that crummy
> old world they dont do anything with!
If it’s so “crummy” why do you want it?
Obviously it means something to you.
Why then do you demean it?
> But its all squish because we have no power and Hop-Frog is dictator.
> All hail Rich!!
Yup, you have no power over Hop-Frog.
But you have power over yourself…power to create something new.
> > In essence, Castle World is a ‘privately-created-website’
> > that aims to foster the development of the Lego Castle
> > community.
> Why should we not have power of CW?
Perhaps because you didn’t create it and it does not belong to you.
> What the heck kind of community is this? You contridict yourself.
> So, we should fall in line or make our own community,
> but we have to fall in line- augh!
I did not say: “fall in line.”
I'm simply talkin’ about the rights of an individual
or individuals to their time and creative works.
It’s a matter of personal choice about what one does with their creations.
If Pawel chooses to be lethargic and differs responsibility to Hop-Frog
then it’s their choice. They didn’t choose you… so the choice is not in you
hands.
> Your incomprehensible.
Perhaps you miss understood then.
Hope it’s better now!
--==Richard==--
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At one point the professional artwork was created and owned by Craig Hamilton.
I believe between the ‘group’ of them, they owned the artwork and existing
sketches of TIOM’s intended map, and other aspects of their creations.
Registered Trade Mark or not, the art/concepts and creative works are still
property of their owners/creators and are shared _with_ the community. But
nonetheless, are still in the possession of its creators, and thus they are
entitled to do what they want with their works.
It’s their trade mark… weather registered or not.
--==Richard==--
And Trade Tark is essentially a moot point…
They can still do whatever they wish with Castle World TM…it’s theirs!
In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Richie Dulin wrote:
> In lugnet.castle.org.cw, Richard Noeckel wrote:
> > What’s wrong with those of you who
> > think you’re entitled to Castle World TM.
>
> Castle World [TM]?
>
> Since when?
>
> I don't recall 'Castle World' being claimed as a trademark on LUGNET before.
>
> It [is not] claimed as a trademark on the website.
>
> It [is] a term now in common use to denote a sort of castle community thing.
>
> It [is] generally still capitalized, so that's a plus for the claim.
>
> If it [is] a valid trademark, who owns it (legally), and what is the
> ownership structure?
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