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Last night as I was strolling through the clearance section of my favorite
Target store, and marveling at my luck at so many train cars being offered
at a discounted price, a thought hit me. Why would a kid who did not have a
Lego train setup at home already want one of these? Then I began to consider
the fundamental problems with TLC’s marketing policy as far as trains are
concerned. Bear in mind this is all my opinion, but as an ex-toy store
employee it is not totally without merit.
The biggest problems with Lego trains is price and lack of competition. For
those of us who grew up in an average income household, toys costing over
$100 were completely out of the question. Although video game systems seemed
to be the exception I was never given a toy, even for a holiday that was
that expensive. Keeping that in mind, the least expensive train set I have
seen is the goofy blue train for $90, which I purchased for myself as adult.
There really are no true introductory train sets, something in the $30-$50
range. Granted other train toys are just as expensive whether it be HO – N –
O scale or Brio, but you can locate starter sets of all these formats
relatively inexpensively, then buy accessories in chunks. As a parent I can
attest to the fact that it is difficult to commit that kind of money into a
toy, when we are unsure of our child’s interest level in the thing. If I
think my son will enjoy the soccer series, I can purchase a set for $10 and
see how he likes it before I buy the huge field, likewise with castle, or
any other theme. This is not the case with trains, how much fun is a little
caboose, when you do not own an actual set, so you start with a very limited
target audience. Keeping that in mind it is very hard for me to understand
why TLC, and Target decided to sell the My Own Train line on retail shelves;
good for me bad for Target.
Bottom line, I am absolutely not surprised that these sets are going on
clearance just months after going on the shelves, until TLC makes some sort
of commitment to broaden the number of Lego train owners this will be the
case. The only options I can see is either create an extremely basic set
containing a tiny circle track, engine and regulator within a reasonable
price range, then commit to add-ons, or embrace hobby shops that specialize
in trains where more committed train enthusiasts can be located. I would
love to see the day when people visiting our train groups layout were heard
to say “I have a small set at home,” instead of “Lego makes trains?”
Just my opinion,
Scott
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In lugnet.trains, Scott Costello writes:
> Last night as I was strolling through the clearance section of my favorite
> Target store, and marveling at my luck at so many train cars being offered
> at a discounted price, a thought hit me. Why would a kid who did not have a
> Lego train setup at home already want one of these? Then I began to consider
> the fundamental problems with TLC’s marketing policy as far as trains are
> concerned. Bear in mind this is all my opinion, but as an ex-toy store
> employee it is not totally without merit.
>
> The biggest problems with Lego trains is price and lack of competition.
Perhaps Trains (in general) are not of this generation. I remember that I
loved to see trains running while I was a little kid. I also loved to go to
the aracde and spent a whole dollar on acrade machines. But then the "dark
ages" came... No not me putting away the LEGO (that came later on)...
No a little company called Nitendo came. When atari was around kids still
went to the arcade beacuse the graphics were still better. Nintendo changed
that and since then look at the aracade places? Oh wait you can't find them
anymore, but a few places.
Now kids are into the quick stimulation of the brain and video games gives
them that. Just look at the boy toy aisle at the stores. In our days GI
Joe was supreme and they were simple plastic figs. Now almost every toy has
to make some sort of sound or light up in some way. Kids can't use their
imagaination any more. If they get a toy that requires them to "think" it
just gets put away.
This I think is the fundamental difference between them and us. It was okay
for us to making gun firing noises for GI Joe or explosions. It was okay
for us to construct LEGO space ships that nobody had ever seen before.
These kids have a huge variey of space ships that they have seen (Star trek,
Star Wars, Babaolne, etc.) none of it is interesting.
Just look at coyboys and indians. Who still plays that? Times have changed
and unless TRAINS finds a way back it will forever be where it is at now: An
old-man's toy.
For
> those of us who grew up in an average income household, toys costing over
> $100 were completely out of the question. Although video game systems seemed
> to be the exception I was never given a toy, even for a holiday that was
> that expensive. Keeping that in mind, the least expensive train set I have
> seen is the goofy blue train for $90, which I purchased for myself as adult.
> There really are no true introductory train sets, something in the $30-$50
> range. Granted other train toys are just as expensive whether it be HO – N –
> O scale or Brio, but you can locate starter sets of all these formats
> relatively inexpensively, then buy accessories in chunks. As a parent I can
> attest to the fact that it is difficult to commit that kind of money into a
> toy, when we are unsure of our child’s interest level in the thing. If I
> think my son will enjoy the soccer series, I can purchase a set for $10 and
> see how he likes it before I buy the huge field, likewise with castle, or
> any other theme. This is not the case with trains, how much fun is a little
> caboose, when you do not own an actual set, so you start with a very limited
> target audience. Keeping that in mind it is very hard for me to understand
> why TLC, and Target decided to sell the My Own Train line on retail shelves;
> good for me bad for Target.
Is was not a TLC decision. Target as a buyer of LEGO has the option to
choose which packages it is going to bring in. It choose to buy more train
theme items. TLC cannot shove product to the seller that they do not want.
(This is something the Brad J. told us as BrickWest02). TLC may have
promoted trains in such a way to make Target this they were going to sell
but it cannot outright give them LEGO to sell.
Target seeing that the MOC line was not moving and knowing that the 2003
line of Star Wars, Orinet, and NBA was coming decided to do what every
bussiness does. Cut their losses and get the merchanides that is not
selling out the door. They only have so much room on the shelf for LEGO and
SW, Orient, and NBA are going to do much better than those train sets (in
thier mind). So out with the junky sets cause they have to make room for the
better selling sets.
(I do not think the train sets are junky, just trying to state what I think
TARGET is thinking here)
>
> Bottom line, I am absolutely not surprised that these sets are going on
> clearance just months after going on the shelves, until TLC makes some sort
> of commitment to broaden the number of Lego train owners this will be the
> case. The only options I can see is either create an extremely basic set
> containing a tiny circle track, engine and regulator within a reasonable
> price range,
But even this type of set would still run in the $80+ price point.
A motor is ~$30, a speed reg another ~30, 1 box of track and pieces ~20-30
So the lowest would be ~80. Still too much and is this not what the blue
train is at? That IMO is a go starter set for a kid. Big train, lots of
minifigs, and everything else you need. The two new sets that came out this
year (The TARGET and TRU exclusives) ARE NOT good sets.
1) The price point is OUT OF THIS WORLD!
2) There is NOT much in them when compares to the blue set.
Okay you get an old-fashion engine and differnt cars but that is it. The
blue set gave you a whole lot more.
3) Kids don't care about exclusive mini-figs or exclusive items in general
(Sorry jake I do like your minifig but I can wait until these puppies are on
clereance). If you are going to make an exclusive IT WAS TO BE EXCLUSIVE!
Apart from the minfigs and the blue coach car their is NOHING else that I
see exclusive about these sets.
Check out MegaBloks new TRU Exclusive Dragon set. That set comes with 12
new dragon warriors, a new dragon, and a bunch of other EXCLUSIVE (found
only in that set and only at TRU) items. Now that is an exclsuive set!
then commit to add-ons, or embrace hobby shops that specialize
> in trains where more committed train enthusiasts can be located.
This is what LegoDirect is trying to make TLC do. LD has talked about this
idea but as with any compony change takes time. I belive that the MOC flop
at TARGET won't help them make the company "see" that trains in other areas
will work.
-AHui
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In lugnet.trains, Ahui Herrera writes:
<snip>
> Perhaps Trains (in general) are not of this generation.
Actually, I think that they were not of *my* generation. With the advent of
TtTE about 15 years ago, I believe we are actually seeing a renaissance in
train interest.
<snip>
> Times have changed and unless TRAINS finds a way back it will forever be where
> it is at now: An old-man's toy.
Young kids are growing up with the wooden Thomas cars and videos. You couldn't
ask for a better foundation on which to build a renewed interest in trains.
<...>
> But even this type of set would still run in the $80+ price point.
> A motor is ~$30, a speed reg another ~30, 1 box of track and pieces ~20-30
> So the lowest would be ~80. Still too much and is this not what the blue
> train is at? That IMO is a go starter set for a kid. Big train, lots of
> minifigs, and everything else you need. The two new sets that came out this
> year (The TARGET and TRU exclusives) ARE NOT good sets.
>
> 1) The price point is OUT OF THIS WORLD!
Agreed. A retail starter set should hit the magical number of $89.99. But for
a little perspective-- have you checked the prices of Brio lately? "Moon
river!" ;-)
TLC should have 1 starter passenger train set and 1 freight train set at this
price point (even if they need to be a type of "loss-leader" as the buckets
are), and then accessorize like crazy.
And why TLC hasn't come out with a Christmas train starter set is beyond me!
<memo to self: talk to Brad at BW about a Christmas train starter set> And
then add collectible cars each year! This is a tried and proven strategy in
model railroading. How many of you would run a Christmas train around your
trees that pulled collectible cars from previous years-- admit it, you *all*
would! :-) Even I, a devout alternative width advocate would do it-- because
of its *collectibility* quality. Heck, I buy the Lionel Hallmark train
ornaments every year, and those babies aren't exactly cheap-- about $40 if you
include loco and tender. And this year they added a passenger car, so make
that $60, and that's assuming you purchase them in their release year. The
first loco in the series MIB now *starts* around $70 alone....
Where are any new examples of lessons learned from the wildly successful Sante
Fe limited edition run??
I guess my point is that there are a lot of marketing strategies that TLC could
and should be working on to bolster their train theme. What it will take is a
commitment from Billund that says "okay, we are going to produce a full train
line" and from there develop a *comprehensive* strategy instead of what is
happening now: LD keeping the trains theme alive via CPR. Let's see an
investment into purchasing a ventilator and get this theme *off* of life
support and get it healthy and growing!
JOHN
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I think Ahui is totally right here. Kids today just do not take interest in
anything that doesn't involve a digital gun of some sort or another. The
kids in my school, excluding my friends of course, like rap, video games,
sex, drugs, and the like. Not to mention the stigma surrounding Lego's as
just being a kid's toy (so many kids tell me "you STILL play with Legos?!").
Of course, we here know better than that, but getting that message to these
kids is next to impossible. And as for trains not being popular, that is,
IMO, the result of Amtrak and diesels. Gone are the majestic pounding
drivers of a Hudson or K-4 and the flashy paint schemes of the Crescent,
Texas Special, 20th Century Limited, etc... Replaced by dull silver coaches
(they're not even shiny) and Geeps. The romance, the allure, of rail
travel, is dead. The airlines and the personal automobile killed it.
America is always in a rush. We don't want to enjoy the journey, we just
want to get there.
Thank god I know of the old ways.
The next generation has so little that's good to idolize and attach to.
Heaven help this country in the coming century.
-Stefan--"Just had to get that all out"-G.
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In lugnet.trains, Ahui Herrera writes:
> In lugnet.trains, Scott Costello writes:
> > Last night as I was strolling through the clearance section of my favorite
> > Target store, and marveling at my luck at so many train cars being offered
> > at a discounted price, a thought hit me. Why would a kid who did not have a
> > Lego train setup at home already want one of these? Then I began to consider
> > the fundamental problems with TLC’s marketing policy as far as trains are
> > concerned. Bear in mind this is all my opinion, but as an ex-toy store
> > employee it is not totally without merit.
> >
> > The biggest problems with Lego trains is price and lack of competition.
>
> Perhaps Trains (in general) are not of this generation. I remember that I
> loved to see trains running while I was a little kid. I also loved to go to
> the aracde and spent a whole dollar on acrade machines. But then the "dark
> ages" came... No not me putting away the LEGO (that came later on)...
>
> No a little company called Nitendo came. When atari was around kids still
> went to the arcade beacuse the graphics were still better. Nintendo changed
> that and since then look at the aracade places? Oh wait you can't find them
> anymore, but a few places.
>
> Now kids are into the quick stimulation of the brain and video games gives
> them that. Just look at the boy toy aisle at the stores. In our days GI
> Joe was supreme and they were simple plastic figs. Now almost every toy has
> to make some sort of sound or light up in some way. Kids can't use their
> imagaination any more. If they get a toy that requires them to "think" it
> just gets put away.
Thinking is detremental to today's youth
>
> This I think is the fundamental difference between them and us. It was okay
> for us to making gun firing noises for GI Joe or explosions. It was okay
> for us to construct LEGO space ships that nobody had ever seen before.
> These kids have a huge variey of space ships that they have seen (Star trek,
> Star Wars, Babaolne, etc.) none of it is interesting.
>
> Just look at coyboys and indians. Who still plays that? Times have changed
> and unless TRAINS finds a way back it will forever be where it is at now: An
> old-man's toy.
>
>
Whoa now...hold on here a minute. Like many youngsters, I embraced the video
game FAD when I was young and pretty much abandoned LEGO® (never knew they
made trains at the time, or that NES would have been quickly struck off my
Christmas list)
Video game systems come and go, yet The Brick remains, despite the wasteful
diversions known as Galidor, Bionicle, and Jack Stone (also fads in my view)
And what's wrong with trains being an 'old man's toy'? At least the old men
have the wisdom and imagination that most people today lack...and playing
with toy/model trains is The Original Hobby™ to begin with.
If parents can't afford to buy their children toy trains, then tough luck on
them, it may just teach a kid to work hard and make a better future for
himself so he can afford his hobby...now that's motivation if I must say so
myself!
-Harvey
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In lugnet.trains, Stefan Garcia writes:
> I think Ahui is totally right here. Kids today just do not take interest in
> anything that doesn't involve a digital gun of some sort or another. The
> kids in my school, excluding my friends of course, like rap, video games,
> sex, drugs, and the like. Not to mention the stigma surrounding Lego's as
> just being a kid's toy (so many kids tell me "you STILL play with Legos?!").
> Of course, we here know better than that, but getting that message to these
> kids is next to impossible. And as for trains not being popular, that is,
> IMO, the result of Amtrak and diesels. Gone are the majestic pounding
> drivers of a Hudson or K-4 and the flashy paint schemes of the Crescent,
> Texas Special, 20th Century Limited, etc... Replaced by dull silver coaches
> (they're not even shiny) and Geeps. The romance, the allure, of rail
> travel, is dead. The airlines and the personal automobile killed it.
> America is always in a rush. We don't want to enjoy the journey, we just
> want to get there.
>
> Thank god I know of the old ways.
>
> The next generation has so little that's good to idolize and attach to.
>
> Heaven help this country in the coming century.
>
> -Stefan--"Just had to get that all out"-G.
Stefan, I agree with everything you've said above and couldn't have put it
better myself.
There was a time when America was a better place to live in...not now
-Harvey
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<snip>
> > No a little company called Nitendo came. When atari was around kids still
> > went to the arcade beacuse the graphics were still better. Nintendo changed
> > that and since then look at the aracade places? Oh wait you can't find them
> > anymore, but a few places.
> >
> > Now kids are into the quick stimulation of the brain and video games gives
> > them that. Just look at the boy toy aisle at the stores. In our days GI
> > Joe was supreme and they were simple plastic figs. Now almost every toy has
> > to make some sort of sound or light up in some way. Kids can't use their
> > imagaination any more. If they get a toy that requires them to "think" it
> > just gets put away.
>
> Thinking is detremental to today's youth
>
> >
> > This I think is the fundamental difference between them and us. It was okay
> > for us to making gun firing noises for GI Joe or explosions. It was okay
> > for us to construct LEGO space ships that nobody had ever seen before.
> > These kids have a huge variey of space ships that they have seen (Star trek,
> > Star Wars, Babaolne, etc.) none of it is interesting.
> >
> > Just look at coyboys and indians. Who still plays that? Times have changed
> > and unless TRAINS finds a way back it will forever be where it is at now: An
> > old-man's toy.
> >
> >
>
> Whoa now...hold on here a minute. Like many youngsters, I embraced the video
> game FAD when I was young and pretty much abandoned LEGO® (never knew they
> made trains at the time, or that NES would have been quickly struck off my
> Christmas list)
>
> Video game systems come and go, yet The Brick remains, despite the wasteful
> diversions known as Galidor, Bionicle, and Jack Stone (also fads in my view)
Yes Video game systems come and go but NOT the force behind them. Video
games systems provide instance stimulation. Generation X (me), Y and the
new millenium babioes (gen z) are all about INSTANCE GRATIFICATION. LEGO
(the brick) cannot compete with the video game system. At the rate that my
generation and the ones that follow are going, LEGO will never be able to
overcome the video game "systems". LEGO will always be 2nd string. Sad but
true. As I stated before LEGO requires imagaintion and thinking. These
concepts are LOST in the new generations.
I don't think Galidor, Bionicle, and Jack Stone are wasteful diversions. At
least Bionicle HAS brought money into LEGO. Anything that brings money into
LEGO is a good thing. Even if it is not for us. BESIDES Bionicile is a
GOLD MINE for you and me. Think about it, who is playing with BIONICLE?
Kids 8-15. 10-15 years from now when these kids are ready to get out of
school and into the real world they just like us will be trying to buy their
old childhood toys. For us Old Star Wars is the hot ticket along with Care
Bare, etc.
Well if you, today, buy Bionicle you tomorrow we be able to SELL it MARKED
UP to these kids! Money for you in the end! The way TRU, KBToys and others
have had sales on BIONICLE right now is the time to get in. The old
Bionicle line is almost gone, the new sets are coming in. Right now is the
time to purchase the old and new collections and just sit on them. =)
Learn from the past. We paied markup for our OLD star wars because we were
too dumb to keep out old toys. The same thing will happen to this kids, and
their kids, and theirs. History repeats itslef here.
>
> And what's wrong with trains being an 'old man's toy'? At least the old men
> have the wisdom and imagination that most people today lack...and playing
> with toy/model trains is The Original Hobby™ to begin with.
Nothing wrong with trains being an old man's toy. But if we want trains to
survive we need to start bring in new young kids blood. Sure there are some
kids that enjoy and play with trains, but the majority of young (american)
kids this theme is lost on. An electronic toy is what they want.
-AHui
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besides agreeing with a lot said here i wonder how many ironclad knights
have been around your neighbourhood lateley or when the last dinosaur
galloped through your garden and yet these are popular themes today. i guess
thomas is more importand than i ever thought and we need more of his sort in
our most effective idolizing media.
tw
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