Subject:
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Re: I'll be back when LUGNET has less flame. I've had enough.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.people
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Date:
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Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:57:38 GMT
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Viewed:
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1107 times
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In lugnet.people, Frank Filz writes:
> Jon Palmer wrote:
> > Whats the deal with you (and others) feeling you're so inundated by
> > flame-wars and long bickering threads? Why not just ignore them? I've
> > participated here since '99 and I've only read part of *one* 'Flame-War'.
> > And thats because I started it. ;-) (Bionicle Avatars)
>
> The deal is that when I started on Lugnet some 2.5 years ago, the
> flamewars were fewer and shorter. I'm not sure of all the reasons for
> what we're seeing, but I think it is a symptom of something real.
What counts? I'm in kind of a trough of reading LUGNET right now -- mostly
sticking to .o-t.debate, my local groups, and .market.shopping, but I just
don't see all the pain. Lots of folks tell us that .debate is among the vilest
of the newsgroups here, but we don't have much of a problem even over there.
So I'm wondering if I just see threads that others would call a flame war, that
I just think is a disagreement, or if there's some part of LUGNET that I'm not
bumping into. I've been on Usenet for ~12 years and seen some really
astounding flame wars with length and vitriol far exceeding, I'm pretty sure,
anything to hit LUGNET.
> Some things to think about:
>
> - The community is large enough now that it's hard to know everyone.
> This by itself contributes to the feeling of being inundated.
It feels less personal around here, but in some ways that's good. Back in the
day, when someone "barged" into a group in which I was a regular poster
throwing around some attitude, I just knew where they were coming from because
we all pretty much knew each other to some extent. And now, they are likely as
not to be a stranger. But it's kind of like the decision I made a long time
ago to attend a large university instead of a small college. I wanted to be
able to get lost in the noise. Maybe some people just like that?
> - People making these dramatic exits are telling us something. People
> are telling us they are leaving because Lugnet provided them a
> significant connection, and they feel bad that they have lost it.
Sure. But isn't that how it's always been? I wonder if the per capita number
of "dramatic exits" has actually risen. I wonder if some poeple have
unrealistic expectations for a community like this and really all they're
telling us is that they've just figured out that LUGNET isn't utopia. I knew
that going in.
> - There is so much more local organization that Lugnet is no longer the
> only place to find fellow fans of the brick.
That's good!
> - It's hard to ignore flame wars. It can be especially hard when a
> simple comment erupts into one. It's especially hard when the flame war
> comes off as a roasting of an individual, and especially after someone
> calls out some activity as being "unhelpful" and then several people
> chime in about how funny or appropriate they thought the "unhelpful"
> comment was (and this most recent activity isn't the first time it's
> happened - actually there's even two flame wars going on right now with
> some similarities).
You're talking about specifics that I've not followed. But why are they harder
to stay away from when those criteria are met? It seems to me almost necessary
that these things will take that form sometimes. We have different ideas of
propriety and it is only through such events that we can hope to come to a
common understanding. I admit that people sometimes get hurt in the process,
and that should be minimized, but people should also realize that when they are
basted, to move on and avoid taking it personally.
> We are social animals and have a profound need to share our lives with
> others. Lugnet was (and in many ways still is) one way to do this
> sharing.
Agreed. Most of the groups that I follow seem, most of the time, to be a
community within the larger LUGNET umbrella community. I saw someone across
the room wearing a lugnet t-shirt at a game con about a year ago and got a kind
of warm fuzzy knowing that he was "one of us." But it wasn't the same as, for
instance, meeting you, Frank. That was meeting someone who (at the time) was a
part of one of the sub-communities whom I had talked to regularly and whose
opinions I respected and enjoyed. I guess what I'm getting at is: I kind of
feel about the people in .debate like I used to about a much wider slice of
LUGNET. But that's OK because I still have my social outlets. Is that not how
it is for everyone else here?
> We're also participating in a hobby which the general populace thinks is
> "weird". And our demographics probably make us more susceptible to being
> worried about being "weird".
I dunno. Most people view all hobbies outside their own as weird.
> Think about it the next time you slam someone.
And then don't do it!
> I sometimes wonder why I continue to be active myself. Fortunately,
> every once in a while, someone posts a response to one of my posts which
> makes me feel good.
That's interesting. I don't ever wonder why I continue, but I drop away and
come back fairly cyclicly. I do wonder why others don't value the links and
MOCs and conversation and news. I think LUGNET rocks!
> I also consider whether other factors in my life are
> the real cause of my feeling cruddy and try not to let Lugnet get to me
> too much, but I also wonder how much of an energy drain Lugnet is.
Seeing the great work that everyone else does and reading their opinions is
really invigorating for me. I don't always take the time to look at
everything, but I'm continually impressed by how creative everyone is.
> The good thing is that I've had nothing but positive feelings about all
> the PNLTC activities I've participated in since I started my journey to
> Oregon (including the seedling planted almost three years ago). I'm also
> having positive feelings around my church activity. Sadly, I'm not
> feeling so great about RPGs or caving (though in the case of caving, I'm
> suspecting I'm passing on from that stage of my life - in part, I think
> caving is not as good a social outlet as my other interests).
I'm having a hard time getting psyched for RPGs anymore. I keep buying the new
and interesting ones and reading them, but I haven't played in a long time.
And I'm not interested in a bad one. I like the idea of a good one, but so
much time is involved...
I still don't know what to take away from the public "I'm leavings." I've
always been conflicted -- thinking on the one hand that the best way to handle
it is a "buh-bye" (or silence) so as not to encourage themir childish
theatrics, and on the other that even if it does seem childish, it's a result
of their pain and it would be nice to help. But how? And I still wonder if
it's really a loss.
my $.02,
Chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: I'll be back when LUGNET has less flame. I've had enough.
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| (...) Hmm, I think there are many hobbies which are generally respected: - mainstream sports (as a fan or player - golf, baseball,[American] football, hockey, tennis, swimming, running, diving) - hiking and camping - sewing, needlepoint, knitting, (...) (22 years ago, 8-Jul-02, to lugnet.people)
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