Subject:
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A question of remembrance...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 22 Apr 2001 09:10:14 GMT
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Viewed:
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329 times
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Hey Y'all:
I have a series of related comments and questions about how we should
remember the holocaust. (And boy, do I have a bad feeling about raising
these issues -- but here they come...)
Frankly, I just don't get something about Holocaust Remembrance Day which I
understand was this last Thursday. Perhaps some of you Lugnuts more learned
in these matters can set me straight, or at least voice your opinions which
may be equally helpful.
First, I want to begin by asserting that this post is in no way intended to
minimize anyone's feelings on the matter I am about to raise. Secondly, I
would like to assert that the holocaust of WW II did in its essentials
actually take place as described by an enormous number of witnesses. There
may be some among you that doubt the existence of the holocaust for what in
your estimation are good reasons -- but if you are in this group, I
respectfully ask that you not respond to this post. I am trying to get at
an objective truth which sets aside personal and political motivations --
but at the same time I assert as a foundational principle for this thread
that the holocaust is an historical event the occurrence of which cannot be
denied. If you want to argue otherwise, don't hijack my thread, start your
own...
Why does the matter come up to begin with? Well, I just finished watching
"Schindler's List" a little while ago when it played on public television
(8-11pm KQED, SF). At the end of the movie a statement appears on the
screen in remembrance of the approx. 6 million Jewish victims of the
holocaust. This is by no means an isolated case, there are dozens of
occasions when the numbers of victims seems to get fudged -- try
http://www.ushmm.org/dordates.html where the following quote can be found:
"When the slaughter was over, six million Jews had been killed and millions
more targeted for persecution and destruction, including Poles; the
handicapped; Gypsies; homosexuals; Jehovah’s Witnesses; Soviet prisoners of
war and political dissidents." Now, that's better but hardly a very
rigorous statement.
When I learned of the holocaust in the history classes of my youth, I
learned that 12 million persons died in that tragic event -- not just 6
million. When I write "just", I am in no way trying to minimize the
staggering enormity of the numbers of Jews that comprised those counted in
that 6 million, but in fairness I am saying that to my knowledge that is
only half of the numbers of the total victims.
If we remember only, or mainly, the Jewish victims of the holocaust, aren't
we in some ways denying the private and public tragedies of millions of
other persons who suffered an identical fate to that of the Jewish victims?
The monstrous crime of the Nazis was to put 12 million persons to a summary
and ghastly death, and to otherwise maintain these same people in the
appalling conditions of the concentration camps prior to their sad deaths.
That people can do such things to other people hurts me deeply. I frankly
don't care about the ethnicity, race, culture, sexual orientation, or
religious associations of those people --they are ALL OF THEM equally worthy
of my remembrance. When I state the words "Never Again!" I am not singling
out any segment of the world's population for favored treatment. I don't
want anyone, anywhere to suffer this way again because of denial of the
event, or because people forget that it wasn't just one group of people. I
know that the Nazis singled out Jews as somehow being especially deserving
of their hatred -- but why should we single them out as especially deserving
of our remembrance?
I am not a Jew, so perhaps there is something unique to the Jewish
experience of the holocaust that I am not getting. At the same time, I am
not an overly stupid person either. Lots of people have suffered all kinds
of terrible things all over the world -- female infanticide, slavery,
religious persecution, racism, etc. We should all of us think of these
various victims from time to time and try to collectively make a better
place of the world and thereby prevent these terrible things from ever
happening again.
Believe it or not, I have actually heard people say that only 6 million
people died in the holocaust. When I corrected them about the numbers and
groups involved, they seemed surprised (some of these people have been
Jewish, BTW). Why do they have to get this information from me? Why isn't
it talked of precisely whenever the holocaust is discussed. Why the
vagueness about the numbers? What is behind the agenda to focus on the 6
million Jews? Can anyone explain this to me?
May the gods protect us all...
-- Richard (Remembering Everyone)
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) The "6 million Jews"/"12 million people" confusion has been prevalent for a long time. A reasonable speculation would be that the holocaust most primarly did target Jews, and they are also the largest demographic of holocaust survivors, and (...) (24 years ago, 22-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| Richard, Wow, that was an excellent post! Yes, I agree that we should remember all the victims of the Holocaust. I feel it does justice to the memory of the Jewish victims when we don't single them out, because doing so creates a hipocrisy. When (...) (24 years ago, 24-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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