Subject:
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Re: Nature of man (was Re: Problems with Christianity)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:04:35 GMT
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Viewed:
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643 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Brown writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes:
> > > But according to others in this group, man doesn't HAVE free will - God
> > > knows everything anyone will do from cradle to grave - where is the free
> > > will in that?
> >
> > Well, I can't speak for others, but here is one take on it. (and I haven't
> > thought this through overly much, so it may have holes...)
> >
> > I don't see a contradiction.
> >
> > If I choose to (X), or to not (X), how does God knowing ahead of time which
> > I will choose affect my making the choice? The position that God's
> > knowledge of my choice will affect my choice implies that God is dictating
> > my choice to me ahead of time, which, AFAIK, isn't happening.
>
> Right, but Tom isn't just saying that God decides in advance which way we'll
> turn out; Tom is asserting, I believe, that in order for the outcome of an
> event to be known in advance with absolute certainty, that event must be
> pre-set in some way, and therefore freewill is an illusion. I'm not talking
> about knowing a range of probable outcomes, but rather the unquestionable
> certainty that God would have. Again, I'm not saying that God is choosing my
> future course for me, but in order for that future course to be absolutely
> known now, it must already be set, so my free will is irrelevant.
See, I knew it had holes. :)
Hmm. I don't necessarily hold to the philosophy of predetermination. How
does the knowledge of the results of a choice render that choice
non-existent? An example of that is that we all know that I replied to
Tom's post yesterday. Does that now mean that yesterday, I couldn't have
chosen to not reply?
Another take: Maybe God's omnisicience is not a static thing. Perhaps, with
each choice we make, God's knowledge is updated. As a rough analogy, a jar
of water does not change in content by being stirred.
Another take: (and the one I tend to lean towards) Omniscient and
omnipotent, as commonly defined are self-defeating. (Can God make a rock he
can't lift?) Shift the definition to "know all things knowable" and "do all
things doable", and God can be omnisicient without compromising free will.
Also, since we're *all* on grounds theoretical, I don't think anyone (except
maybe God) can say either position is certain.
James
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