Debate : 8226


Off-Topic / Debate / 8226	8225 \| 8227

Subject:	Re: Nature of man (was Re: Problems with Christianity)
Newsgroups:	lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date:	Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:09:24 GMT
Viewed:	636 times

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Brown writes: > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes: > > But according to others in this group, man doesn't HAVE free will - God knows > > everything anyone will do from cradle to grave - where is the free will in > > that? > > Well, I can't speak for others, but here is one take on it. (and I haven't > thought this through overly much, so it may have holes...) > > I don't see a contradiction. > > If I choose to (X), or to not (X), how does God knowing ahead of time which > I will choose affect my making the choice? The position that God's > knowledge of my choice will affect my choice implies that God is dictating > my choice to me ahead of time, which, AFAIK, isn't happening. Right, but Tom isn't just saying that God decides in advance which way we'll turn out; Tom is asserting, I believe, that in order for the outcome of an event to be known in advance with absolute certainty, that event must be pre-set in some way, and therefore freewill is an illusion. I'm not talking about knowing a range of probable outcomes, but rather the unquestionable certainty that God would have. Again, I'm not saying that God is choosing my future course for me, but in order for that future course to be absolutely known now, it must already be set, so my free will is irrelevant. Dave!

Message has 4 Replies:

		Re: Nature of man (was Re: Problems with Christianity)
(...) Yep, that about pegged it. If you believe in an omniscient, omnipotent God, you're kidding yourself if you don't think the ENTIRE game is rigged from femtosecond one to the end. Free Will is nothing but an illusion in that case. Personally, (...) (24 years ago, 20-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Nature of man (was Re: Problems with Christianity)
(...) Idunno, it's kinda comforting knowing your weird can't be avoided and all there is is to grip your broadsword and have a cry of Valhalla on your lips. Time is an illusion. :-) Bruce (been playing with Castles too much, methinks) (24 years ago, 20-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Nature of man (was Re: Problems with Christianity)
(...) See, I knew it had holes. :) Hmm. I don't necessarily hold to the philosophy of predetermination. How does the knowledge of the results of a choice render that choice non-existent? An example of that is that we all know that I replied to Tom's (...) (24 years ago, 20-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Nature of man (was Re: Problems with Christianity)
(...) Can God actually be limited to our subjective experience? Assuming that our path is unique in the near infinity of possible universes, all of which God understands totally, is it actually possible for God to comprehend how linear this (...) (23 years ago, 31-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Message is in Reply To:

		Re: Nature of man (was Re: Problems with Christianity)
(...) Well, I can't speak for others, but here is one take on it. (and I haven't thought this through overly much, so it may have holes...) I don't see a contradiction. If I choose to (X), or to not (X), how does God knowing ahead of time which I (...) (24 years ago, 19-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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