Subject:
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Re: Problems with Christianity
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:11:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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432 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Steve Chapple writes:
> 1. The problem with looking at God's existence from a purely scientific
> point of view is that it doesn't work.
Already established and debated. You're right.
> Science can only prove/disprove
> something that can be repeatedly tested in a laboratory. You can prove
> that two hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom will change from solid to
> liquid state at zero degrees and to a gaseous state at 100
I'm sure Dave! would correct you by saying science can't "PROVE" anything,
but that's just semantics :)
> You could prove the existence of God or love in a court, but not a lab.
Oh? That's new. I either doubt your conclusion or have a different
definition of "prove" than you. Probably the latter.
> 2. Christ's significance isn't limited to just what He said and did.
> You speak of Him in the past tense - it's not what He did - it's who He IS.
> Christmas and Easter are celebrations of the three most significant events
> in history - Christ's birth, death, and resurrection. (Even the very word
> history, comes from His_Story.) (I could go on at great length, but I
> don't think that's what you're after here.)
Point missed. Christ, no matter how you look at Him, is finite. Not all
humans or intelligent "beings" (if you believe in such things) were/are/will
be born with a knowledge of Jesus. And many, by means of experience,
weren't/aren't/won't. People who lived 3,000 years ago had no chance. People
living in remote tribes with no contact with Christians have no chance. Etc.
Why should there be those who have more advantages based on location, when
they were born, etc.? Again, doesn't matter. You could say (and I couldn't
logically debate you) that only people that NEED help in finding truth, etc.
are born with exposure to Christianity-- that's the way God planned it. I
don't BUY it, but I can't logically argue it, since I can't say anything
about what God 'really' says.
> 3. I would say that where you spend eternity is of utmost importance.
> Christ spoke more about hell than He did about heaven. The answers
> to your questions are in the Bible.
Again, this is something I simply have moral issue with. I don't believe in
permanent reward or punishment. It just doesn't "jive" with me. I think John
Neal's approach to this worked pretty well for me though... but then again,
I may be interpreting his view wrong, I suppose. Anyway, again, doesn't
matter. You could say that my moral sense is obviously flawed since you
define morality differently and ultimately. I can't argue. I can only disagree.
> 4. This country (consider me an American for the moment) was founded
> on Biblical standards/principles/values.
Agree.
> It's the very turning away from
> God that is the root cause of the problems (and problems is a rather
> drastic understatement) that are destroying our nation from within.
I lost you.
#1. Prove that the problems are caused by turning away from God.
#2. Prove that our problems are any more worse now than they were 200 years
ago. I think they're just different. And some I doubt I'd even consider
problems, that no doubt you would.
> You said yourself that this fourth point is your main focus; I have a
> basic question for you - If you do not base your ethical principles on
> the Bible, upon what do you base them?
Sorry, but I think I went over this in quite a bit of detail. I'll say it
again though.
Morality is developed in the human mind through finding a sense of what one
wants (via experience) and reacting to social conditions (again, via
experience).
Hence, my morality is based on what I want and what, what I think others
want, and how I rate our wants, based on my own capacity for comprehension
and my experience with these issues. Someone else's morality will differ. In
major and/or minor aspects, to different degrees.
DaveE
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Problems with Christianity
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| (...) ie. Beyond a reasonable doubt. Witnesses describe what they have experienced and any corroborating (or contradictory) physical evidence is examined, etc. Theoretically I could present my "Case for Christ" to you, but while it's proven as far (...) (24 years ago, 17-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Problems with Christianity
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| (...) That's good - many just blindly proceed along the path to destruction. Christ Himself said "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate (...) (24 years ago, 15-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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