Subject:
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Re: Wining Hearts & Minds
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 4 May 2004 23:55:25 GMT
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Viewed:
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690 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Don Heyse wrote:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur wrote:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Don Heyse wrote:
> > > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur wrote:
> > > > > http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/966AE903-390F-4B56-B786-CCED9BFD22BB.htm
> > > >
> > > > Strangly enough, according to this blog:
> > > >
> > > > http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > > > The particular incident may in fact do just that: Win some hearts and
> > > > minds if it's handled correctly.
> > >
> > > If it's "handled correctly" a lot of people will end up in the slammer:
> >
> > I tend to agree with you there, however I suspect your heart and mind
> > are set in their ways, regardless of how this particular event works out.
> > Fortunately, according to the blog, some people (whom this actually concerns)
> > are able to see the big picture, rather than focusing on every little
> > failure as if it's the end of the world.
>
> Unfortunately, it's far too easy to justify countless small atrocities by
> invoking The Big Picture. Here's the well-known and prevailing wisdom on the
> matter (quoted here, but famous in general):
> http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/30/messages/2095.html
Heh, I like the quote, but I'm not convinced that's what's happening
here. People still swim in the ocean even though it's inhabited by
sharks. However the media will always cover the shark bite stories
because it's easy to sell pictures of shark bite violence. But they'll
never tell you anything about the millions of other people who swam there
unmolested. Same thing here.
> Additionally, more and more ugly details keep surfacing about The Big
> Picture, such as this, if true:
> http://news.com.au/common/printpage/0,6093,9465475,00.html
But this is not the big picture. It's more ugly details about a tiny
portion of the big picture. Apparently very bad things have been
happening in the Iraqi prisons for a long time. And yet, before the
US got involved you and the media had no interest in such things. I'd
say things US involvement has improved things for the prisoners. At least
now their plight is known and something might be done about it. That's
where this fits into the big picture.
> > I'm curious, would you be happier if the free press were silenced? Is
> > the world a better place when this sort of thing happens, but we don't
> > have to hear about it?
>
> I'm not sure that Scott is calling for restricted press. I have little
> doubt that he'd prefer to have all these crimes subjected to the light
> of public scrutiny.
But was he happier a few years ago when the press was disinterested, or
not allowed and the torture and killings weren't all over the news? It
would seem so.
> > I think you need to spend a bit more time with your toys. After all,
> > that's what we're really here for. Tell me, what do you think of the
> > new colors?
>
> Haven't noticed them, honestly! 8^)
I wasn't talking to you. I can see you still seem to find time to play
with your toys. But some people seem to be spending all their time in
here, talkine about death and war when this is supposed to be a forum
about toys. I think if you're obsessed enough to spend more time
in .debate than talking about the toys, you've got a problem. Seek
help. Break out the toys. Whatever it takes.
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Wining Hearts & Minds
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| (...) This is offensive. I demand you either substantiate or retract that statement! I joined AI in 1987 and opposed SH when Washington/London still supported him. I opposed Apartheid when Washington/London supported it.I’ve even castigated (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Wining Hearts & Minds
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| (...) Perhaps I'm unclear on your conception of The Big Picture. Here's mine, and I'd be interested to see how it fits alongside yours: The United States is widely perceived to be a hegemonic and militaristic juggernaut bent on securing its own (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Wining Hearts & Minds
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Don Heyse wrote: <snip> (...) I don't know but the charm, for me, has faded in o-t.d. I get all excited about something and I banter with Bruce, or Dave! But it's more effort now than it was before. It's like I have to (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Wining Hearts & Minds
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| (...) Unfortunately, it's far too easy to justify countless small atrocities by invoking The Big Picture. Here's the well-known and prevailing wisdom on the matter (quoted here, but famous in general): (URL) more and more ugly details keep surfacing (...) (20 years ago, 4-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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