 | | Re: Justice for all..... —Pedro Silva
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| | | (...) Yes. And "to what end" as well, don't leave that one out. (...) And what do you propose to "fix it", if anything? (...) Two things: if money could buy charges in the ICC that easily, the court would be overwhelmed with legal actions already. (...) (21 years ago, 20-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Don Heyse
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| | | | (...) Charge anyone caught bribing smaller countries with war crimes? (...) Sorry, I blame my crappy US lack of education for that one. I meant the Balkans. (...) Yeah, but North Africa is geographically closer to Europe than the US. And there is a (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Don Heyse
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| | | | | (...) Since it's Christmas^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hthe Holidays, I figure I should throw in this nugget for you debators. I also think this is the problem with Libertarianism (is that a word?) In Theory it sounds like a really good system, but it falls (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) It (in pure form) hasn't been tried in practice. (...) Why? Take as your base assumption that people are basically good, with some exceptions, and set up your system to reward goodness and punish badness. Suffering the consequences of your (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | (...) I think that's a bad assumption. Human beings didn't evolve to what we are by being nice to all the other furry creatures, or for that matter, other local tribes of human beings. Goodness came later, when we had time for that sort of thing. (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) I agree. I once read that the nearest we have ever come to libertarianism was Pinochet's Chile… OK if you were rich I suppose. Check past posts in this very group and you'll see that libertarianism been comprehensively rubbished by everyone (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) True, but neither has pure Communism, pure Socialism, or pure Democracy, for that matter. I'm not convinced that we can meaningfully speculate what a "pure" incarnation of any of these systems would be like, except by undertaking selective (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Agreed. I don't think you actually can have a pure anything. But you can have systems that are more libertarian or less, and more socialist or less, and more fascist or less, etc. I claim that the more libertarian you go, the better things (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) Good example. The system has been set up to exempt tickets from due process, in my view, because they say driving is a priv, and it's not a criminal offence but rather a civil infraction and a bunch of other stuff. That's their explanation, (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | (...) In some states, driving has been argued to be more of a right than a privledge. I don't actually know how they work it in the EU, so maybe it's not the best example, but it was easy to lay out. (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) I stress again that I find this relevant. (...) Oh bribery is a crime all right. But I doubt it can fit the definition of war crime. Care to prove me wrong? (...) True, it is close to Europe (we use the term "Mediterranean Basin" as well when (...) (21 years ago, 22-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Don Heyse
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| | | | (...) Yes, but I don't, so I can't really add much here. Perhaps if you tell us *why* you find it so relevent I might be able to reply to that. (...) No, you got me there. We usually hire professional lawyers and politicians around here to "fix" (...) (21 years ago, 23-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | (...) Ok. I find it relevant because *you* brought it up, and have not ellaborated what you meant. It's very easy to leave vague suspicion in the air, so what I'm asking you is to be blunt and say whom, in this regard, bribes/is bribed and *to do (...) (21 years ago, 23-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Don Heyse
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| | | | (...) Actually I think Scott brought it up and the answers you seek are in the article he provided earlier in this thread: (URL) for some reason you mysteriously deleted in this post: (URL) you so desire, you can reprint the entire BBC article here. (...) (21 years ago, 23-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Justice for all..... —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) Let me get this straight, then: the article only mentions "pressure" by the USA, when trying to make sure others *EXEMPT* US citizens from prosecution in ICC. In essence, are you accusing your own country of covertly "bribing" those who grant (...) (21 years ago, 23-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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